samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:28 am
Post subject: Bigger Scandal: Some Insider Candidates Did
Not Pay Files |
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|
Even Bigger Scandal: Some Insider
Candidates Did Not Pay Filing Fees
Looking at the list of Candidates for the 2005 elections, it
seems that several approved candidates did not pay the
required $250 filing fee.
The following candidates DID pay the $250 fee:
Joel Channing
Greg Shahade
William Goichberg
Sam Sloan
Randy Bauer
Elizabeth Shaughnessy
However, the following candidates appear not to have paid
the required $250 fee:
Robert Tanner
George John
Steve Shutt
Of particular interest to me is the case of George John. I
have long suspected that George John does not exist. By that
I mean that although I have met several times a person who
calls himself George John, I suspect that this is not his
real name.
Therefore, I have searched for payments of exactly $250.00
by anybody, thinking that in this way I might be able to
find out the real name of George John.
Looking for payments of exactly $250, I find that this
amount was paid by St. Benilde Chess on January 28, 2005. I
suspect that this was the payment for Steve Shutt.
I find a payment in the amount of $250 by Vela Middle School
on 12/1/04. I suspect that this was unrelated to the
election.
There are no other payments of $250 by anybody during the
relevant time period.
Therefore, at least one and possibly as many as three
candidates did not pay the required $250 filing fee, one of
whom was elected.
Kindly investigate this.
Sam Sloan |
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ChessPromotion 12123950
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 332
Location: Forest Hills, NY
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:40 am
Post subject: Question for Mr. Goichberg, Channing,
Schultz, Tanner, Hough |
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|
samsloan wrote: |
Even Bigger Scandal: Some Insider
Candidates Did Not Pay Filing Fees
Looking at the list of Candidates for the 2005
elections, it seems that several approved candidates
did not pay the required $250 filing fee.
The following candidates DID pay the $250 fee:
Joel Channing
Greg Shahade
William Goichberg
Sam Sloan
Randy Bauer
Elizabeth Shaughnessy
However, the following candidates appear not to have
paid the required $250 fee:
Robert Tanner
George John
Steve Shutt
Of particular interest to me is the case of George
John. I have long suspected that George John does
not exist. By that I mean that although I have met
several times a person who calls himself George
John, I suspect that this is not his real name.
Therefore, I have searched for payments of exactly
$250.00 by anybody, thinking that in this way I
might be able to find out the real name of George
John.
Looking for payments of exactly $250, I find that
this amount was paid by St. Benilde Chess on January
28, 2005. I suspect that this was the payment for
Steve Shutt.
I find a payment in the amount of $250 by Vela
Middle School on 12/1/04. I suspect that this was
unrelated to the election.
There are no other payments of $250 by anybody
during the relevant time period.
Therefore, at least one and possibly as many as
three candidates did not pay the required $250
filing fee, one of whom was elected.
Kindly investigate this.
Sam Sloan |
Why do you allow this kind of behavior? How many more
innocent people must pay for this man's despicable actions
before something will be done? How many EB code of conducts
has he broken since he was elected? You create rules for
this forum for others to follow but he can post whatever he
wants and falsely attack anyone he wants? When will you say
enough is enough? Does the USCF have the right to refuse /
revoke memberships?
_________________
Stand up, unite and fight for the rights of all USCF
members, especially children! |
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nolan 10339324
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 3919
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:25 am
Post subject: |
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As I recall, several of the candidate
fees in the 2005 election were paid by credit card. These
would have been 'manual' charges through the USCF's credit
card terminal, I'm not sure exactly how they would have been
posted to the general ledger, but I doubt they'd be discrete
transactions, probably just mixed in with 'miscellaneous
income' entries.
More detailed tracking of credit card transactions,
including the 'manual' ones, is one of the goals of the new
cash receipts tracking system. The first phase of this went
into use in late October. |
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rfeditor 10010250
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 1211
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:57 am
Post subject: Re: Bigger Scandal: Some Insider Candidates
Did Not Pay File |
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|
samsloan wrote: |
Of particular interest to me is the case of George
John. I have long suspected that George John does
not exist. By that I mean that although I have met
several times a person who calls himself George
John, I suspect that this is not his real name.
Sam Sloan |
In an endorsement letter, Selby Anderson wrote,
Quote: |
Dear Voter:
I've known George John since he ran computer
pairings for the Texas Scholastic in 1996. A devoted
chess dad, he channeled his energies into improving
chess organizations. He started by creating TCA's
first website later that year. He became one of the
ablest Texas delegates to USCF, and a voice of
reason in the flame-plagued newsgroup
rec.games.chess.politics.
As chair of the Computer/Internet committee, he put
his computer expertise to work in modernizing the
systems at USCF. George has been a positive force
for change in USCF at a difficult time in its
history, and he brings high-level corporate
experience as well as technical ability to the job.
George John listens to people, but he does not bend
on principle. Years ago he split with our state's
senior Delegate and supported One Member One Vote.
In February, as TCA president he called a special
meeting at the Texas Scholastic to deny a petition
to change team eligibility rules in mid-tournament
for one high school player. George admitted that the
particulars made him sympathetic to the petition,
but added that it would be worse to tinker with a
rule (even one that needs changing) with the
tournament in progress. His motion to deny the
petition carried.
George takes public service seriously, and he raises
the tone of the debate wherever he is found. He is
just the sort of leader USCF needs to stay on track
with its continued improvement.
Sincerely,
Selby Anderson
Texas Knights editor, 1988-2003 |
Of course, he might be part of the conspiracy as well.
Perhaps everyone is, except Sam. Perhaps they follow Sam
around, dismantling cities when they aren't needed maintain
the illusion that there is a world out there beyond Sam's
immediate view. Or perhaps not.
_________________
John Hillery |
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samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:08 am
Post subject: Re: Question for Mr. Goichberg, Channing,
Schultz, Tanner, H |
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ChessPromotion wrote: |
Why do you allow this kind of behavior? How many
more innocent people must pay for this man's
despicable actions before something will be done?
How many EB code of conducts has he broken since he
was elected? You create rules for this forum for
others to follow but he can post whatever he wants
and falsely attack anyone he wants? When will you
say enough is enough? Does the USCF have the right
to refuse / revoke memberships? |
While fighting for the rights of our children, would you
kindly explain why Susan Polgar and you received the
following payments:
Why don't you go out and get a job?
8/04/02 48099 Polgar Chess 1500.00
9/27/02 57657 (voided) Susan Polgar 2500.00
10/9/02 57742 Polgar Chess Inc. 2500.00
11/22/02 58175 Polgar Chess Inc. 1164.55
12/03/02 58276 Susan Polgar 300.00
12/03/02 58304 Susan Polgar 300.00
3/20/03 59134 Susan Polgar 500.00
3/20/03 59140 Paul Truong 100.00
4/11/03 59353 Susan Polgar 500.00
4/18/03 59391 Polgar Chess Inc. 1469.91
4/21/03 59456 Polgar Chess Author 500.00
4/21/03 59484 Susan Polgar 500.00
4/28/03 59577 Susan Polgar 576.00
4/28/03 59593 Polgar Chess Inc. 1469.91
4/28/03 59631 Susan Polgar 500.00
4/28/03 59636 Paul Hoainhan Truong 325.00
4/28/03 59643 Paul Hoainhan Truong 325.00
4/28/03 59669 Paul Hoainhan Truong 100.00
10/30/03 60655 Polgar Chess Authority 500.00
11/10/03 60739 (voided) Polgar Chess Authority 500.00
11/12/03 60745 Polgar Chess Authority 500.00
11/21/03 60898 Polgar Chess Inc. 500.00
11/21/03 60907 Paul Hoainhan Truong 140.00
11/21/03 60922 Polgar Chess Inc. 500.00
11/21/03 60931 Paul Hoainhan Truong 215.00
12/1/03 62003 (voided) Polgar Chess Inc. 5932.50
12/5/03 60983 Polgar Chess Inc. 4105.86
12/15/03 61128 Polgar Chess Inc. 2000.00
12/16/03 61181 Polgar Chess Inc. 500.00
12/16/03 61185 Paul Hoainhan Truong 150.00
12/23/03 61255 Polgar Chess Inc. 500.00
12/23/03 61275 Polgar Chess Inc. 500.00
1/06/04 61339 Polgar Chess Inc. 2000.00
3/31/04 61807 Polgar Chess Inc. 500.00
4/17/04 61971 Polgar Chess Inc. 582.90
4/29/04 62013 Polgar Chess Inc. 5932.50
5/13/04 62102 Polgar Chess Inc. 500.00
5/14/04 62127 Polgar Chess Inc. 500.00
6/14/04 62318 Polgar Chess Inc. 500.00
6/28/04 62384 Polgar Chess Inc. 500.00
8/16/04 62586 Polgar Chess Inc. 500.00
8/24/04 62613 Polgar Chess Inc. 500.00
10/14/04 62829 Polgar Chess Inc. 500.00
10/29/04 62919 Polgar Chess Inc. 500.00
11/18/04 63000 Susan Polgar 500.00
12/09/04 63137 Susan Polgar 500.00
12/27/04 63209 Susan Polgar 500.00
1/06/05 63268 (voided) Susan Polgar 2100.00
2/03/05 63374 Polgar Chess Inc. 2032.00
2/24/05 63490 Susan Polgar 500.00 |
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samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:31 am
Post subject: Re: Bigger Scandal: Some Insider Candidates
Did Not Pay File |
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rfeditor wrote: |
Of course, he might be part of the
conspiracy as well. Perhaps everyone is, except Sam.
Perhaps they follow Sam around, dismantling cities
when they aren't needed maintain the illusion that
there is a world out there beyond Sam's immediate
view. Or perhaps not. |
Ever since George John started coming around to chess
tournaments in 1996, there has been speculation as to what
his real name is.
Carol Jarecki told me in about 1999 that she believes that
his real name is George St. John.
Do a Google search and you will not find that name of George
John coming up in any field other than chess. This is
strange for a self proclaimed computer expert.
At the 2005 delegate's meeting in Phoenix, I confronted
George John and asked him to show me his drivers license or
other photo ID showing what his real name is. He refused. He
must have had photo ID on him, because he was required to
carry photo ID to board an aircraft to fly to Phoenix.
George John could end all this speculation in a minute by
producing a drivers license for example. One wonders why he
refuses to do this, especially when he is running for
election.
The fact that he apparently did not pay his $250 filing fee
can only add to this speculation. Although Bill Smythe
states that George John could have paid by credit card, the
election rules clearly stated that the candidate must send a
check for $250 to the secretary. George John did not do that
and thus his candidacy should have been declared invalid.
Incidentally, George John finished dead last in the
election.
Sam Sloan |
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Smythe Dakota 10339022
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 1054
Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:47 am
Post subject: Re: Bigger Scandal: Some Insider Candidates
Did Not Pay File |
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|
samsloan wrote: |
.... Although Bill Smythe states
that George John could have paid by credit card .... |
That was Mike Nolan, not me.
Although I usually agree with Mike (and George John too, for
that matter), that is no excuse for mixing us up.
Bill Smythe |
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Jim Flesher 20056161
Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 30
Location: Weston, WV
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:14 am
Post subject: Re: Bigger Scandal: Some Insider Candidates
Did Not Pay File |
|
|
samsloan wrote: |
Even Bigger Scandal: Some Insider
Candidates Did Not Pay Filing Fees
Looking at the list of Candidates for the 2005
elections, it seems that several approved candidates
did not pay the required $250 filing fee.
The following candidates DID pay the $250 fee:
Joel Channing
Greg Shahade
William Goichberg
Sam Sloan
Randy Bauer
Elizabeth Shaughnessy
However, the following candidates appear not to have
paid the required $250 fee:
Robert Tanner
George John
Steve Shutt
Of particular interest to me is the case of George
John. I have long suspected that George John does
not exist. By that I mean that although I have met
several times a person who calls himself George
John, I suspect that this is not his real name.
Therefore, I have searched for payments of exactly
$250.00 by anybody, thinking that in this way I
might be able to find out the real name of George
John.
Looking for payments of exactly $250, I find that
this amount was paid by St. Benilde Chess on January
28, 2005. I suspect that this was the payment for
Steve Shutt.
I find a payment in the amount of $250 by Vela
Middle School on 12/1/04. I suspect that this was
unrelated to the election.
There are no other payments of $250 by anybody
during the relevant time period.
Therefore, at least one and possibly as many as
three candidates did not pay the required $250
filing fee, one of whom was elected.
Kindly investigate this.
Sam Sloan |
Who at the USCF office did you verify this information with?
_________________
James A Flesher USCF ID: 20056161 |
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nolan 10339324
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 3919
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:15 am
Post subject: |
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|
There was nothing in the Bylaws in
effect for the 2005 election about requiring the filing fee
be paid by check.
It says the filing fee must be "made payable to the USCF",
which a credit card charge would be.
I suppose that language was put in to make sure a check
wasn't made payable to the USCF Secretary.
Last edited by nolan 10339324 on Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:21 am;
edited 2 times in total |
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Jim Flesher 20056161
Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 30
Location: Weston, WV
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:18 am
Post subject: Re: Bigger Scandal: Some Insider Candidates
Did Not Pay File |
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|
samsloan wrote: |
rfeditor wrote: |
Of course, he might be
part of the conspiracy as well. Perhaps
everyone is, except Sam. Perhaps they follow
Sam around, dismantling cities when they
aren't needed maintain the illusion that
there is a world out there beyond Sam's
immediate view. Or perhaps not. |
Ever since George John started coming around to
chess tournaments in 1996, there has been
speculation as to what his real name is.
Carol Jarecki told me in about 1999 that she
believes that his real name is George St. John.
Do a Google search and you will not find that name
of George John coming up in any field other than
chess. This is strange for a self proclaimed
computer expert.
At the 2005 delegate's meeting in Phoenix, I
confronted George John and asked him to show me his
drivers license or other photo ID showing what his
real name is. He refused. He must have had photo ID
on him, because he was required to carry photo ID to
board an aircraft to fly to Phoenix.
George John could end all this speculation in a
minute by producing a drivers license for example.
One wonders why he refuses to do this, especially
when he is running for election.
The fact that he apparently did not pay his $250
filing fee can only add to this speculation.
Although Bill Smythe states that George John could
have paid by credit card, the election rules clearly
stated that the candidate must send a check for $250
to the secretary. George John did not do that and
thus his candidacy should have been declared
invalid.
Incidentally, George John finished dead last in the
election.
Sam Sloan |
Why should he have to show you his drivers lic? If you asked
to see mine I wouldn't be likely to produce it. How do I
know your name is really Sam Sloan? Never mind no one else
would want to be Sam Sloan... except the fake Sam Sloan, or
maybe the other fake Sam Sloan, or maybe even Sam Sloan
himself.
_________________
James A Flesher USCF ID: 20056161 |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:20 am
Post subject: Re: Bigger Scandal: Some Insider Candidates
Did Not Pay File |
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|
samsloan wrote: |
... the election rules clearly
stated that the candidate must send a check for $250
to the secretary. George John did not do that and
thus his candidacy should have been declared
invalid.
...Sam Sloan |
Mr. Sloan continues to prove that his
is clearly unfit for office. In this latest bit of "scandal"
he shows that he lacks the ability to read simple english
sentences. The candidates are NOT required to pay by check.
In fact, the word "check" doesn't even appear in the section
of the bylaws that deals with EB elections.
Mr. Sloan, RESIGN NOW BEFORE YOU EMBARRASS YOURSELF FURTHER!
You are clearly not capable of fulfilling your duties to the
USCF. Quit!
_________________
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
---
I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so
I can spread.
 |
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gregory 13474581
Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 280
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:53 am
Post subject: |
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I don't want my personal financial
records available to Sam Sloan.
The other problem is Mr. Sloan apparently has access to our
information using the good office of the EB and is now
making our records public to justify some new wild claim.
Someone please tell me that he does not have our financial
records available.
Mike, can't someone put a stop to his intrusion into the
records of others? I hope that someone in the EB can suspend
his privileges to look into member data until his behavior
of using our own data to meet his own needs is stopped. This
is nonsense and it could be used by a member to sue the
office of the USCF.
Please address this,
_________________
Gregory Alexander
USCF ID 13474581
www.collegechessleague.com |
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ChessPromotion 12123950
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 332
Location: Forest Hills, NY
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:55 am
Post subject: Re: Bigger Scandal: Some Insider Candidates
Did Not Pay File |
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|
tanstaafl wrote: |
samsloan wrote: |
... the election rules
clearly stated that the candidate must send
a check for $250 to the secretary. George
John did not do that and thus his candidacy
should have been declared invalid.
...Sam Sloan |
Mr. Sloan continues to prove
that his is clearly unfit for office. In this latest
bit of "scandal" he shows that he lacks the ability
to read simple english sentences. The candidates are
NOT required to pay by check. In fact, the word
"check" doesn't even appear in the section of the
bylaws that deals with EB elections.
Mr. Sloan, RESIGN NOW BEFORE YOU EMBARRASS YOURSELF
FURTHER! You are clearly not capable of fulfilling
your duties to the USCF. Quit! |
He's never about the good of the USCF or chess. He's about
himself. If he speaks normally, no one would listen to him.
So the only way he can get attention for himself is by
linking his name to well known individuals. And since most
of them don't want to associate themselves with a lunatic,
he has no choice but to fabricate things and deceive the
readers pretending there's a serious issue to get attention.
You can't blame a sick and mentally ill individual. The real
question is what kind of people would support a lying
despicable lunatic? And the other question why is the USCF
so afraid to revoke the membership of an individual like
this?
_________________
Stand up, unite and fight for the rights of all USCF
members, especially children! |
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gregory 13474581
Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 280
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:11 pm
Post subject: |
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To start; I just want his ability to
look at personal membership records revoked. I don't relish
having an irresponsible board member to be able to look at
any of our financial data and then post it on his own site
on the internet. It is irresponsible for the USCF to let
this happen now that we have a solid track record of Mr.
Sloan's willingness to circumnavigate normal processes the
board, and release this data publicly. As a member of the
USCF, I resent having him having access to look at my own
data; and his behavior is uncalled for.
Surely the USCF can act quickly on this to prevent a
potential violation of privacy?
_________________
Gregory Alexander
USCF ID 13474581
www.collegechessleague.com |
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nolan 10339324
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 3919
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:24 pm
Post subject: |
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As far as I know, no member of the
Board has access to any current personal member information
(such as addresses or birthdates) from USCF records.
Members of the Board and the LMA, Finance and Audit
Committees were recently sent a CD with copies of the
general ledger files for the last 7 fiscal years, I assume
that's where he's gleaning this data from.
Bill Hall has just confirmed that the USCF office has copies
of the $250 filing fee checks from Robert Tanner, George
John and Steve Shutt.
I don't know why Sam couldn't find those transactions on the
CD.
(I must have been confused as to in which election a filing
fee was paid by credit card, that may have been the special
board election in 2006.) |
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samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Bigger Scandal: Some Insider Candidates
Did Not Pay File |
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Jim Flesher wrote: |
Why should he have to show you his
drivers lic? If you asked to see mine I wouldn't be
likely to produce it. How do I know your name is
really Sam Sloan? Never mind no one else would want
to be Sam Sloan... except the fake Sam Sloan, or
maybe the other fake Sam Sloan, or maybe even Sam
Sloan himself. |
If you happen to see me, I shall be happy to show you or
anybody else my drivers license, to prove that my real name
really is Sam Sloan.
It so happens that this often comes up, because I have the
same name as three famous people in history:
1. A famous railroad tycoon, one of the richest men in
America, whose statue stands near the PATH Train Station in
Hoboken New Jersey because he built the Erie Lakawanna
Railroad.
2. A famous architect of Philadelphia who built many famous
buildings in downtown Philadelphia and who wrote the book
"Sloan's Victorian Houses".
3. A famous floor broker and member of the New York Stock
Exchange.
I believe that all three of these men are my distant
relatives, but I am unable to prove it.
Therefore, whenever anybody challenges me and suggests that
my real name is not Sam Sloan, I am always ready to whip out
my drivers license and birth certificate to prove that this
really is my real name.
Sam Sloan |
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gregory 13474581
Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 280
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:32 pm
Post subject: |
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Thanks Nolan.
I sure hope that someone is watching the wild bull in the
china shop carefully
before too many things get broken. I sure wish a team of
folks could cuff the guy while in a role of prominence
though.
Take care,
_________________
Gregory Alexander
USCF ID 13474581
www.collegechessleague.com |
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JonH 12444802
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 68
Location: Florida
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Bigger Scandal: Some Insider Candidates
Did Not Pay File |
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samsloan wrote: |
Ever since George John started coming around to
chess tournaments in 1996, there has been
speculation as to what his real name is.
Carol Jarecki told me in about 1999 that she
believes that his real name is George St. John.
Do a Google search and you will not find that name
of George John coming up in any field other than
chess. This is strange for a self proclaimed
computer expert.
At the 2005 delegate's meeting in Phoenix, I
confronted George John and asked him to show me his
drivers license or other photo ID showing what his
real name is. He refused. He must have had photo ID
on him, because he was required to carry photo ID to
board an aircraft to fly to Phoenix.
George John could end all this speculation in a
minute by producing a drivers license for example.
One wonders why he refuses to do this, especially
when he is running for election. |
What a waste of time.
There are many more important things that you, as a Board
member, could be doing for chess. |
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Jim Flesher 20056161
Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 30
Location: Weston, WV
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Posted:
Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Bigger Scandal: Some Insider Candidates
Did Not Pay File |
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|
JonH wrote: |
samsloan wrote: |
Ever since George John started coming around
to chess tournaments in 1996, there has been
speculation as to what his real name is.
Carol Jarecki told me in about 1999 that she
believes that his real name is George St.
John.
Do a Google search and you will not find
that name of George John coming up in any
field other than chess. This is strange for
a self proclaimed computer expert.
At the 2005 delegate's meeting in Phoenix, I
confronted George John and asked him to show
me his drivers license or other photo ID
showing what his real name is. He refused.
He must have had photo ID on him, because he
was required to carry photo ID to board an
aircraft to fly to Phoenix.
George John could end all this speculation
in a minute by producing a drivers license
for example. One wonders why he refuses to
do this, especially when he is running for
election. |
What a waste of time.
There are many more important things that you, as a
Board member, could be doing for chess. |
I couldn't agree with you more Jon. I have stated in other
posts that it is time to move past such diversions and
concentrate on promoting chess.
Jim
_________________
James A Flesher USCF ID: 20056161 |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:16 am
Post subject: |
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|
Apparently, Mr. Sloan has known for a
week now that his original post in this thread was simply a
false accusation. The BINFO message that all candidates had
paid their fees (and we have copies of the checks to prove
it) has now been released.
Instead of issuing a retraction or appology, Mr. Sloan has
let this falsehood stand for a week and continue to libel
the individuals he identified (improperly and incorrectly)
as not having paid their filing fee.
By letting his statement
stand AFTER he learned that it was false, what COULD have
been an innocent mistake has become an intentional act.
I call on the moderator (AGAIN) to address Mr. Sloan's
actions. His false statements about other people should not
be allowed to stand.
_________________
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
---
I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so
I can spread.
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ChessPromotion 12123950
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 332
Location: Forest Hills, NY
|
Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:36 am
Post subject: |
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|
tanstaafl wrote: |
Apparently, Mr. Sloan has known
for a week now that his original post in this thread
was simply a false accusation. The BINFO message
that all candidates had paid their fees (and we have
copies of the checks to prove it) has now been
released.
Instead of issuing a retraction or appology, Mr.
Sloan has let this falsehood stand for a week and
continue to libel the individuals he identified
(improperly and incorrectly) as not having paid
their filing fee. By
letting his statement stand AFTER he learned that it
was false, what COULD have been an innocent mistake
has become an intentional act.
I call on the moderator (AGAIN) to address Mr.
Sloan's actions. His false statements about other
people should not be allowed to stand. |
Not going to happen. The USCF is so scared of him. He should
have been banned from this federation long ago but they are
too scared to take actions. I don't blame him. I view him as
a mentally ill person. I blame his supporters.
_________________
Stand up, unite and fight for the rights of all USCF
members, especially children!
Last edited by ChessPromotion 12123950 on Tue Nov 21, 2006
11:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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nolan 10339324
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 3919
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Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:25 am
Post subject: |
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Paul, what proof do you have that Sam
Sloan is mentally ill?
If none, then please remove or edit your post. |
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nolan 10339324
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 3919
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Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:28 am
Post subject: |
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Sam, you should by now have received
the Executive Director's note indicating that the office has
copies of the cancelled checks for all of the candidates in
the 2005 EB election.
Please modify or remove your earlier post. |
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wzim 11315844
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 227
Location: Peoria, Il
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Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:20 pm
Post subject: |
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|
ChessPromotion wrote: |
... I view him as a mentally ill person. I blame his
supporters. |
Note here that ChessPromotion isn't calling anyone mentally
ill, He is merely stating his opinion that he views so and
so as a mentally ill person. This is entirely different then
actually calling someone crazy.
But my first reaction to the post was that that bit of info
could have been left out. |
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nolan 10339324
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 3919
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Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:39 pm
Post subject: |
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|
He has edited his post to change the
wording, but I don't think you're off base in reading it as
a gratutiously unnecessary negative comment.
However, if the moderators have to review every post for
something that someone might consider negative, we might as
well shut the Forums down completely! |
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ChessPromotion 12123950
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 332
Location: Forest Hills, NY
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Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:03 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
nolan wrote: |
He has edited his post to change
the wording, but I don't think you're off base in
reading it as a gratutiously unnecessary negative
comment.
However, if the moderators have to review every post
for something that someone might consider negative,
we might as well shut the Forums down completely! |
Has anyone read posts by Mr. Big Shot of the EB? Am I the
only one who see the double standard? Are we telling the
members that board members can shoot their mouths off and
post attacks and lies any time they want?
By the way, I am the moderator of various sites with over a
million unique users a month. This kind of nonsense would
never be tolerated there.
_________________
Stand up, unite and fight for the rights of all USCF
members, especially children! |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:13 pm
Post subject: |
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|
nolan wrote: |
Sam, you should by now have
received the Executive Director's note indicating
that the office has copies of the cancelled checks
for all of the candidates in the 2005 EB election.
Please modify or remove your earlier post. |
I have about a hundred OTHER examples
of the same sort of thing. Mr. Sloan makes an outrageous
charge, is presented with proof that his charge was false,
and then he changes the subject or reasserts his previous
false statement.
I'm only aware of two cases that he has EVER appologized or
retracted a statement. One of these was the Jay Sabine
appology (though his FALSE statements about Jay and the
others was still on the forums
without correction,
last time I checked). The other was his "appology" to Grant
Perks, which was just a thinly veiled attempt to further
attack Grant, myself, and others.
If you're going to ask him to fix this ONE transgression,
how about all the others?
_________________
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
---
I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so
I can spread.
 |
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nolan 10339324
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 3919
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Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:28 pm
Post subject: |
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|
Tighter moderation has to start
SOMEWHERE.
Earlier people were complaining that there wasn't any, now
they're complaiining that there is.
Make up your minds!!
I don't know that I have time to review all of the back
posts to find things someone might find problematical with
them. Do you? |
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WPraeder 12887461
Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 99
Location: PA, USA
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Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:41 pm
Post subject: |
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|
ChessPromotion wrote: |
nolan wrote: |
He has edited his post to
change the wording, but I don't think you're
off base in reading it as a gratutiously
unnecessary negative comment.
However, if the moderators have to review
every post for something that someone might
consider negative, we might as well shut the
Forums down completely! |
Has anyone read posts by Mr. Big Shot of the EB? Am
I the only one who see the double standard? Are we
telling the members that board members can shoot
their mouths off and post attacks and lies any time
they want?
By the way, I am the moderator of various sites with
over a million unique users a month. This kind of
nonsense would never be tolerated there. |
Paul,
Perhaps only a few observe that our USCF officials appear to
continue to do and say whatever they want with no apparent
accountability. It seems not uncommon if you want to get
away with abusing somebody - you first launch a pre-emptive
attack on their character, so that nobody will believe them
when they soon complain about what you are doing to them. We
often see this type of behavior or a change of subject when
officials are faced with difficult questions. Even though
our officials have a duty to know and follow the rules
governing the corporation, it continues to appear these
laws, rules, or standards are not always enforced, no
sanctions imposed, nor have there been penalties for
inaction. Such is the legacy of our old unaccountable
political system. It is a noble beginning to try to get our
officials to adhere to the Standards of Conduct for the USCF
Executive Board. As much as a challenge it is to get our
leadership to acknowledge that they are subject to these
standards, it may be even more difficult to consistently
apply such standards.
USCF officials’ are quick to challenge or even sanction an
abuse from outsiders but stopping an abuse among their own
superficially appears subject to extreme due process and
rigorous proof. It is understandable that to enforce
standards for one implies enforcing said standards
consistently for all. Something however can be done. Recall
is always an option, but encouraging more independent
successful business professionals to be on the board and
working to get out the vote during the next Executive Board
election may help even better. It will take time to develop
a new more accountable business oriented system. Ultimately
accountability will need to be enforced over time by the
membership with the process of being able to elect or reject
the leaders and their policies that oversee the direction of
the corporation.
Regards,
Wayne Praeder |
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ChessPromotion 12123950
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 332
Location: Forest Hills, NY
|
Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:55 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
nolan wrote: |
Tighter moderation has to start
SOMEWHERE.
Earlier people were complaining that there wasn't
any, now they're complaiining that there is.
Make up your minds!!
I don't know that I have time to review all of the
back posts to find things someone might find
problematical with them. Do you? |
It should start with the person who IS the biggest abuser of
the forum rule. I would be more than happy to apply for the
moderator position to give you more time for other more
important areas.
_________________
Stand up, unite and fight for the rights of all USCF
members, especially children! |
|
ChessPromotion 12123950
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 332
Location: Forest Hills, NY
|
Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:57 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
WPraeder wrote: |
ChessPromotion
wrote: |
nolan wrote: |
He has edited his
post to change the wording, but I
don't think you're off base in
reading it as a gratutiously
unnecessary negative comment.
However, if the moderators have to
review every post for something that
someone might consider negative, we
might as well shut the Forums down
completely! |
Has anyone read posts by Mr. Big Shot of the
EB? Am I the only one who see the double
standard? Are we telling the members that
board members can shoot their mouths off and
post attacks and lies any time they want?
By the way, I am the moderator of various
sites with over a million unique users a
month. This kind of nonsense would never be
tolerated there. |
Paul,
Perhaps only a few observe that our USCF officials
appear to continue to do and say whatever they want
with no apparent accountability. It seems not
uncommon if you want to get away with abusing
somebody - you first launch a pre-emptive attack on
their character, so that nobody will believe them
when they soon complain about what you are doing to
them. We often see this type of behavior or a change
of subject when officials are faced with difficult
questions. Even though our officials have a duty to
know and follow the rules governing the corporation,
it continues to appear these laws, rules, or
standards are not always enforced, no sanctions
imposed, nor have there been penalties for inaction.
Such is the legacy of our old unaccountable
political system. It is a noble beginning to try to
get our officials to adhere to the Standards of
Conduct for the USCF Executive Board. As much as a
challenge it is to get our leadership to acknowledge
that they are subject to these standards, it may be
even more difficult to consistently apply such
standards.
USCF officials’ are quick to challenge or even
sanction an abuse from outsiders but stopping an
abuse among their own superficially appears subject
to extreme due process and rigorous proof. It is
understandable that to enforce standards for one
implies enforcing said standards consistently for
all. Something however can be done. Recall is always
an option, but encouraging more independent
successful business professionals to be on the board
and working to get out the vote during the next
Executive Board election may help even better. It
will take time to develop a new more accountable
business oriented system. Ultimately accountability
will need to be enforced over time by the membership
with the process of being able to elect or reject
the leaders and their policies that oversee the
direction of the corporation.
Regards,
Wayne Praeder |
Agreed. Can you suggest 3-4 people who you think should run
for the next EB to help the USCF?
_________________
Stand up, unite and fight for the rights of all USCF
members, especially children! |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
|
Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:11 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
nolan wrote: |
Tighter moderation has to start
SOMEWHERE.
Earlier people were complaining that there wasn't
any, now they're complaiining that there is.
Make up your minds!!
I don't know that I have time to review all of the
back posts to find things someone might find
problematical with them. Do you? |
I agree that tighter moderation has
to start somewhere. I AM NOT complaining about tighter
moderation.
I will point out that the history of enforcement SEEMS to
indicate that Mr. Sloan can get away with whatever he wants.
IF THAT ISN'T THE INTENT, THEN PLEASE CORRECT THAT
APPEARANCE.
If you don't want to go through the history of posts on the
Forum, that's fine. I don't recall anyone requesting this. I
merely pointed out that *I* had several other examples --
I'd simply like to see a more "blanket" request made to Mr.
Sloan. Something like: "Mr. Sloan please remove or edit all
previous posts that are now known to have been false
charges". I could list several examples if that would help
-- charges KNOWN to be false. For example the charges
against Jay Sabine, the accusations of criminal activity
made against Grant Perks, the charge that Mr. Truong
demanded and was paid a specific amount of money ($39,000?),
...
I have NO expectations that this request would be honored,
but HE HASN'T EVEN BEEN ASKED!!!
_________________
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
---
I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so
I can spread.
 |
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Ron Suarez 12483626
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 357
Location: Peoria, Illinois ... the Middle
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Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:52 pm
Post subject: |
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|
tanstaafl voices my point EXACTLY.
Mike, when are you going to address the gross violations of
the forum rules done by Sam Sloan?
No one has asked you to spend an inordinate amount of time
searching every past post for wrongs.
We are simply asking you to show true competence in your job
as moderator by enforcing the rules of this forum
evenhandedly.
You have consistently ignored my other posts and threads
regarding this lack of performance by you, Mike, in this.
Kindly respond.
_________________
...from the Middle,
Ron Suarez
ID# 12483626 |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
|
Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:20 pm
Post subject: |
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|
Ron,
No offense, but you're making your point more strongly than
I would choose.
I think the issue and forum moderation IN GENERAL has become
political -- perhaps IN SPITE of Mike's best intentions.
The WORST solution, IMHO, would be to name a clear partisan
as a moderator (like Paul Truong).
We badly need one or more neutral parties to help with the
job of moderating the forums and enforcing the rules, but I
can't think of anyone offhand that would be seen as neutral.
I also would be glad to help with this task, but on the
subject of Mr. Sloan, I am definately not a "neutral party".
Perhaps somebody could be found to act as a volunteer
moderator that would be willing to limit his actions AS
MODERATOR to only certain subjects (say, everything but Mr.
Sloan's actions, for exampe).
_________________
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
---
I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so
I can spread.
 |
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Ron Suarez 12483626
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 357
Location: Peoria, Illinois ... the Middle
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Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:35 pm
Post subject: |
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|
tanstaafl, I agree with you except I
don't think that I was too strong in my wording.
I don't think it would be hard to be equal and fair in the
delivery of the moderator's job, even with Sam Sloan.
If I say that something that someone does is stupid, or say
less, you can bet that my post would be deleted.
Sam has used that exact word and other more strong
adjectives to describe decisions made by powers that be in
the USCF. His postings go untouched by the moderator(s).
I am not complaining just asking that the rules be applied
evenly to everyone in the forum.
I actually think politics and personal likes and dislikes
can and should be put aside in the moderator's job.
_________________
...from the Middle,
Ron Suarez
ID# 12483626 |
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WPraeder 12887461
Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 99
Location: PA, USA
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Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:56 pm
Post subject: |
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|
ChessPromotion wrote: |
Agreed. Can you suggest 3-4 people who you think
should run for the next EB to help the USCF? |
Paul,
I’m sure today’s call for candidates on Susan Polgar’s Blog
will provide some good feedback and suggestions. These will
be a good start. In my view our problem to attract talent
stems from our lack of focus and our style of political
clientelism that most potential candidates may find
unattractive. We often set our expectations very low only
because we have not been successful. You never know however
until you ask. Perhaps a successful example was Susan
Polgar’s recruitment of Delilah? Of course as an
organization we must crawl before walking, and walk before
running, but that should not stop us from imagining what
could be.
Imagine a USCF Executive Board consisting of such
individuals as Roxanne Spillett, Arnold Schwarzenegger,
Jennifer Capriati, Sting, Luz A. Vega-Marquis, Jimmy Carter,
Frances Hesselbein, and Bill Gates. Imagine all that talent
channeled to guide and advance chess in America. If you can
visualize this type of Executive Board then the next step is
to imagine what type of governance system would be necessary
to attract, elect and support such talent on behalf of
chess.
Food for thought, perhaps?
Regards,
Wayne Praeder |
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nolan 10339324
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 3919
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Posted:
Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:05 pm
Post subject: |
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|
I've asked Sam (and others) to edit
or delete recent posts in still-active threads.
I do not plan to do a review of past posts.
Let's let Sam and the others respond, I will then take
whatever action I consider appropriate. |
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
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Posted:
Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:23 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
tanstaafl wrote: |
nolan wrote: |
Sam, you should by now
have received the Executive Director's note
indicating that the office has copies of the
cancelled checks for all of the candidates
in the 2005 EB election.
Please modify or remove your earlier post. |
I have about a hundred OTHER
examples of the same sort of thing. Mr. Sloan makes
an outrageous charge, is presented with proof that
his charge was false, and then he changes the
subject or reasserts his previous false statement.
I'm only aware of two cases that he has EVER
appologized or retracted a statement. One of these
was the Jay Sabine appology (though his FALSE
statements about Jay and the others was still on the
forums without
correction, last time I checked). The other
was his "appology" to Grant Perks, which was just a
thinly veiled attempt to further attack Grant,
myself, and others.
If you're going to ask him to fix this ONE
transgression, how about all the others? |
I'm going to surprise you and suggest
that you start a thread and list these false accusations. If
you're right, it should be documented. |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:39 pm
Post subject: |
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|
I've tried to respond to each one on
a case-by-case basis. All you have to do is follow Mr.
Sloan's threads and you'll see where somebody has pointed
out factual errors.
I've also been asked NOT to "try in public" my ethics
complaint against Mr. Sloan, so I'm going to try to stick to
MORE RECENT actions by Mr. Sloan. There are plenty of
examples. Are there 100? Not if I limit myself to the more
recent posts -- after all, he was without his computer for
several weeks...
You might also note that Mr. Sloan has yet to comply with
the moderator's request that he correct his original post in
THIS thread (that has since been proven to be a false
charge).
_________________
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
---
I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so
I can spread.
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nolan 10339324
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 3919
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Posted:
Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:45 pm
Post subject: |
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OK, how many minutes/hours/days would
you allow for a response? |
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
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Posted:
Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:47 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
tanstaafl wrote: |
You might also note that Mr. Sloan
has yet to comply with the moderator's request that
he correct his original post in THIS thread (that
has since been proven to be a false charge). |
Right as far as I know, he hasn't,
and his original claim that some people didn't pay their
filing fee has been refuted.
It's the sort of charge that could be serious if true,
because it could cause a procedural issue: if someone didn't
pay the filing fee and won in the voting, should that person
be barred from office and the runner-up installed instead?
But if it's not true, it is nothing but an error. It's not a
scandal, it's not a libel, it's not scurrilous, it's not
going to ruin anyone's reputation. You can say Sam has made
mistakes, and I've encouraged you to document them because
you feel they are important.
Still though -- to quote Walter Mondale quoting the Wendy's
hamburger chain advert -- where's the beef? |
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rfeditor 10010250
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 1211
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Posted:
Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:01 pm
Post subject: |
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artichoke wrote: |
tanstaafl wrote: |
You might also note that
Mr. Sloan has yet to comply with the
moderator's request that he correct his
original post in THIS thread (that has since
been proven to be a false charge). |
Right as far as I know, he
hasn't, and his original claim that some people
didn't pay their filing fee has been refuted.
It's the sort of charge that could be serious if
true, because it could cause a procedural issue: if
someone didn't pay the filing fee and won in the
voting, should that person be barred from office and
the runner-up installed instead?
But if it's not true, it is nothing but an error.
It's not a scandal, it's not a libel, it's not
scurrilous, it's not going to ruin anyone's
reputation. You can say Sam has made mistakes, and
I've encouraged you to document them because you
feel they are important.
Still though -- to quote Walter Mondale quoting the
Wendy's hamburger chain advert -- where's the beef? |
If I were to accuse that Sam Sloan of violating every law in
the Penal Code and committing every deviant act given in
Krafft-Ebbing, there is a good chance that I would be right
at least once. That would not justify my behavior, either
legally or morally.
_________________
John Hillery |
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SteveTN 12467003
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Nashville, TN
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Posted:
Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:05 pm
Post subject: |
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nolan wrote: |
OK, how many minutes/hours/days
would you allow for a response? |
Sam told the fib on 13 nov 2006, YOU refuted it on 13 nov
2006. It is now 22 nov 2006. Shouldn't you have asked how
many months/years/decades?
It looks like the USCF will allow Sammy to say anything he
wants, anytime he wants. What is the harm? Despite being
presented proof of his falsehoods, Sammy keeps repeating
them in perpetuity. Others pick up the chant not bothering
to verify, and in some cases not caring about, the truth. It
then becomes accepted "knowledge" despite being a falsehood.
I'm sure all this is old news to you so I have to wonder why
you ask such questions as you did above.
_________________
Steve OWENS in Tennessee
Just a USCF Member
It is time to GROSS |
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ChessPromotion 12123950
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 332
Location: Forest Hills, NY
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Posted:
Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:57 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
SteveTN wrote: |
nolan wrote: |
OK, how many
minutes/hours/days would you allow for a
response? |
Sam told the fib on 13 nov 2006, YOU refuted it on
13 nov 2006. It is now 22 nov 2006. Shouldn't you
have asked how many months/years/decades?
It looks like the USCF will allow Sammy to say
anything he wants, anytime he wants. What is the
harm? Despite being presented proof of his
falsehoods, Sammy keeps repeating them in
perpetuity. Others pick up the chant not bothering
to verify, and in some cases not caring about, the
truth. It then becomes accepted "knowledge" despite
being a falsehood.
I'm sure all this is old news to you so I have to
wonder why you ask such questions as you did above. |
One has to wonder why the USCF has not banned SS from
posting on this forum for violating countless rules? But if
an "ordinary" member says something about SS, that member
has to immediately edit / delete his / her post. I guess
2+2=3 with the USCF.
_________________
Stand up, unite and fight for the rights of all USCF
members, especially children! |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
|
Posted:
Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:13 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
artichoke wrote: |
tanstaafl wrote: |
You might also note that
Mr. Sloan has yet to comply with the
moderator's request that he correct his
original post in THIS thread (that has since
been proven to be a false charge). |
Right as far as I know, he
hasn't, and his original claim that some people
didn't pay their filing fee has been refuted.
It's the sort of charge that could be serious if
true, because it could cause a procedural issue: if
someone didn't pay the filing fee and won in the
voting, should that person be barred from office and
the runner-up installed instead?
But if it's not true, it is nothing but an error.
|
It WAS an error when it was
originally made. It was an error that was made with (as many
of Mr. Sloan's "errors") RECKLESS DISREGARD FOR THE TRUTH.
And it hurt the reputations of the people Mr. Sloan named
(in fact, I think it's clear that it was Mr. Sloan's INTENT
to harm their reputations). Legally, I think that makes his
original statement actionable. First you say it's a "serious
charge", then that it was in error, then you claim "it's not
a libel"! It certainly IS! "I made a mistake" is NOT a
defense in a libel case! Of course, if he had RETRACTED his
"mistake" when it was refuted, he COULD have limited the
damage.
artichoke wrote: |
It's not a scandal, it's not a
libel, it's not scurrilous, it's not going to ruin
anyone's reputation. You can say Sam has made
mistakes, and I've encouraged you to document them
because you feel they are important.
Still though -- to quote Walter Mondale quoting the
Wendy's hamburger chain advert -- where's the beef? |
Not all "mistakes" are equal. A 9th
grader that adds two numbers incorrectly and makes a
"mistake" on a math exam hasn't injured anybody. A doctor
that makes the same mistake and ends up giving a patient an
overdose has made a different kind of "mistake". The fault
that would be assigned is quite different -- again, not all
mistakes are equal.
My chief complaint against Mr. Sloan isn't that he makes
mistakes. His mistakes cause harm, are made with a reckless
disregard for the facts (he could easily have asked the
office about the current "scandal" for example), and he
makes no effort to correct these mistakes.
Add to all of this that Mr. Sloan holds a position of trust
within our organization. His words should be given more
weight because he is in a postion where he should be able to
determine the actual facts behind these "scandals". Also,
because he has a duty as an officer of the USCF to preserve
the reputation of the USCF and otherwise protect its
interests, his transgressions are even more serious. (it's
clearly NOT in the best interest of the USCF if all decent
employees are driven to seek other employment because of Mr.
Sloan's reckless charges).
I'm not going to take the time tonight to detail all of Mr.
Sloan's false charges. There are a bunch of them. In my
mind, the most serious of these are the charges of criminal
activity that were made by Mr. Sloan against a USCF
employee. Mr. Sloan later admitted that the charge was
incorrect. BUT HE NEVER EDITED OR MODIFIED THE ORIGINAL
POST. It's still out there, still libeling the good name of
a USCF employee. Anybody doing a quick search could easily
see the original, false charges. Only if they took the time
to read the entire thread and follow-ups could we be sure
they'd see that the original post was false. FURTHER, Mr.
Sloan's charges were a COMPLETE FABRICATION. He never had
ANY information that actually connected THIS REAL PERSON
with any criminal actions.
_________________
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
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I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
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Posted:
Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:30 pm
Post subject: |
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tanstaafl wrote: |
....First you say it's a "serious
charge"...
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You're twisting what I wrote. You
have completely misrepresented the situation. |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:54 pm
Post subject: |
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I appologize to artichoke. I didn't
mean to misrepresent his words. I don't think I'm
misrepresenting the SITUATION, but we can agree to disagree
on that point.
I see Mr. Sloan's continued actions as a serious matter and
I hope it is addressed soon.
_________________
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
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Posted:
Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:38 am
Post subject: |
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tanstaafl wrote: |
I appologize to artichoke. I
didn't mean to misrepresent his words. ... |
No problem, thanks. |
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samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
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Posted:
Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:44 pm
Post subject: |
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tanstaafl wrote: |
I've tried to respond to each one
on a case-by-case basis. All you have to do is
follow Mr. Sloan's threads and you'll see where
somebody has pointed out factual errors.
I've also been asked NOT to "try in public" my
ethics complaint against Mr. Sloan, so I'm going to
try to stick to MORE RECENT actions by Mr. Sloan.
There are plenty of examples. Are there 100? Not if
I limit myself to the more recent posts -- after
all, he was without his computer for several
weeks...
You might also note that Mr. Sloan has yet to comply
with the moderator's request that he correct his
original post in THIS thread (that has since been
proven to be a false charge). |
I generally ignore that postings by Herbert Rodney Vaughn
a/k/a tanstaafl because all he does is attack me, he seems
to have nothing to do with his life but attack me and, by
contrast, I have other things to do.
The statement by Bill Hall that Judy Misner has shown him
"copies of checks received from Steve Shutt, Robert Tanner,
and George John in the amount of $250 each". does not
completely address the question.
The election rules in 2005 stated that a check for the $250
filing fee plus a petition containing the signatures of 30
USCF voting members must be received by the USCF Secretary
(who was Don Schultz at the time) by the filing deadline,
which was January 10, 2005.
A controversy arose when Randy Bauer admitted that he had
been late in mailing his petition, and therefore he had
called the office and Judy Misner had told him that she
would take care of it.
I now have access to the general ledger and I can see that
the filing fee for Randy Bauer was received one day late in
fact.
However, there is no record in the general ledger that I
have been able to find thus far showing that the $250 fee
was ever actually received from Robert Tanner, George John
or Steve Shutt.
Thus, it is insufficient merely to show "copies of checks
received from Steve Shutt, Robert Tanner, and George John in
the amount of $250 each". It is necessary to show in
addition that these checks were mailed to Don Schultz, that
he received them on or before January 10 and that these
checks were deposited in the USCF's bank account and
cleared.
It is entirely possible that there is a good explanation as
to why these checks do not show up in the general ledger.
However, no explanation has yet been offered and I am still
waiting to hear it.
Even if there is a good explanation, I would also like to
hear an explanation as to why these three insider candidates
were treated differently from the other six candidates, as
checks from the other six candidates do appear in the
general ledger.
Randy Bauer wrote in rec.games.chess.politics that since his
check would not reach the USCF Secretary on time, he had
called Judy Misner and she had said that she would take care
of it.
The general ledger shows that the money was received from
Bauer on January 11, 2005, which was one day late.
The other issue was that the by-laws at that time stated
that the money must be mailed to the Secretary, who was Don
Schultz in Florida. This by-law has since been revised.
However, the December 2004 issue of Chess Life had
mistakenly stated that the check for $250 could be mailed to
either the Secretary or to the USCF Office. I think that the
office was still in New Windsor, but I am not sure.
You can find the April, 2005 debate over these issues on
rec.games.chess.politics by searching "Statementgate".
There is still no answer to the question of, if these checks
for $250 were mailed, why were not these checks deposited in
the bank account and why do they not show up in the general
ledger.
Incidentally, Wayne Praeder filed an ethics complaint
against this procedure a few months later and got it
changed.
Sam Sloan |
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Vince Hart 12685294
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 66
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Posted:
Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:01 pm
Post subject: |
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[quote="samsloan]
Thus, it is insufficient merely to show "copies of checks
received from Steve Shutt, Robert Tanner, and George John in
the amount of $250 each". It is necessary to show in
addition that these checks were mailed to Don Schultz, that
he received them on or before January 10 and that these
checks were deposited in the USCF's bank account and
cleared.
Sam Sloan[/quote]
You alleged the filing fees were not paid. Why is it
necessary to show anything in addition to the checks? Why
should anybody be obligated to guess what your next baseless
accusation is going to be? |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:04 pm
Post subject: |
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So, Mr. Sloan has decided to ignore
the moderators request. His false statement about the three
candidates is STILL THERE even though he has acknowledged
that the USCF had copies of the checks showing that the
candidates DID pay. Is any action going to be taken against
him?
He says this doesn't answer all the questions! When will all
his questions EVER be answered? So what if there are more
questions, HE STILL KNOWS HIS STATEMENT THAT STARTED THIS
THREAD MADE A FALSE ACCUSATION! Why hasn't he corrected it?
Instead he brings up yet another matter -- an ethics
complaint that was settled months ago. Why bring that up
now? I notice he doesn't bother to identify the PERSON named
in the complaint OR the OUTCOME of that complaint (the
ethics committee voted in favor of the "defendant", didn't
they?). Do they not serve your purpose, Mr. Sloan?
It's funny that Mr. Sloan would say I spend all my time
attacking HIM. Is that supposed to excuse HIS behavior? He
made that claim against me once before and had it thoroughly
refuted by several others. Since then, I've spent a far
larger amount of my time than I'd like dealing with Mr.
Sloan and his consistent violations of the rules. Did Mr.
Sloan anticipate this and try for a "preemptive strike"? Or
would this be giving him too much credit -- after all he's
attacked just about everybody else also.
Mr. Sloan, please edit your original post. You've been
notified that the candidates in question really did pay
their fees. When and how this was recorded in the general
ledger has NOTHING to do with those candidates: they weren't
in the office, they weren't in charge of recording payments,
they didn't have the responsibility for deposting the
checks.
As has been noted previously, payment by CHECK wasn't even
required -- it simply had to be "payable to the USCF".
Why should we be wasting time on this issue? Mr. Sloan
clearly wanted to damage the reputations of these candidates
-- was he worried about having to face them in the next
election? I guess he simply decided to start his dirty
politics and mud-slinging a little early for this election.
_________________
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rfeditor 10010250
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 1211
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Posted:
Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:37 pm
Post subject: |
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samsloan wrote: |
"The election rules in 2005 stated that a check for
the $250 filing fee plus a petition containing the
signatures of 30 USCF voting members must be
received by the USCF Secretary (who was Don Schultz
at the time) by the filing deadline, which was
January 10, 2005."
"The other issue was that the by-laws at that time
stated that the money must be mailed to the
Secretary, who was Don Schultz in Florida. This
by-law has since been revised. However, the December
2004 issue of Chess Life had mistakenly stated that
the check for $250 could be mailed to either the
Secretary or to the USCF Office. I think that the
office was still in New Windsor, but I am not sure." |
These two statements contradict one another. The second is
clearly false. The Bylaws at the time required only
"submission to" the Secretary, with no mention of how it
should be sent. Sam, are you really under the delusion that
no one will look these things up?
samsloan wrote: |
Even if there is a good
explanation, I would also like to hear an
explanation as to why these three insider candidates
were treated differently from the other six
candidates, as checks from the other six candidates
do appear in the general ledger. |
Those "three insider candidates" were on opposite sides of a
bitter election campaign. Your definition of "insider" seems
to be "everyone except you." I suppose that's fair, since no
sane person would tolerate your presence inside a tent of
any size.
_________________
John Hillery |
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samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
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Posted:
Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:58 pm
Post subject: |
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It was you Tanstaafl who restarted
this thread, which is why "we are wasting time on it."
Bill Hall was not yet working for the USCF in January 2005.
He did not start until six months later. Thus, he has no
personal knowledge of the facts.
The CFO of the USCF in January 2005 was Grant Perks. We now
know what his opinion is worth.
Knowing when or if the checks for $250 were received by the
USCF and when or if they were deposited in the bank is of
paramount importance to this issue.
Everybody knows that if I had been one day late in paying my
filing fee, I would not have been certified as a candidate.
Just to double check, have again today done a thorough
search of the records. There is no record of a transaction
of any kind involving George John (I still would like to
know what his real name is). There are large payments
involving thousands of dollars to Robert Tanner but no money
received from him. There are mysterious transactions
involving Steve Shutt for $182.30 but this obviously had
nothing to do with the election.
Sam Sloan |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:34 pm
Post subject: |
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samsloan wrote: |
It was you Tanstaafl who restarted
this thread, which is why "we are wasting time on
it." ...Sam Sloan |
No, Mr. Sloan, your false charges are
why we are "wasting time". You now know that your original
statement was false. Yet you refuse to retract or correct
your original charges.
We know now that the original charges were false. He refuses
to change his original post with these false charges. Does
Mr. Sloan's continued refusal constitute legal malice? It
certainly DOES constitute a violation of the forum rules.
_________________
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
---
I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so
I can spread.
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SteveTN 12467003
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Nashville, TN
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Posted:
Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:25 pm
Post subject: |
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samsloan wrote: |
It was you Tanstaafl who restarted
this thread, which is why "we are wasting time on
it."
Bill Hall was not yet working for the USCF in
January 2005. He did not start until six months
later. Thus, he has no personal knowledge of the
facts.
The CFO of the USCF in January 2005 was Grant Perks.
We now know what his opinion is worth.
Knowing when or if the checks for $250 were received
by the USCF and when or if they were deposited in
the bank is of paramount importance to this issue.
Everybody knows that if I had been one day late in
paying my filing fee, I would not have been
certified as a candidate.
Just to double check, have again today done a
thorough search of the records. There is no record
of a transaction of any kind involving George John
(I still would like to know what his real name is).
There are large payments involving thousands of
dollars to Robert Tanner but no money received from
him. There are mysterious transactions involving
Steve Shutt for $182.30 but this obviously had
nothing to do with the election.
Sam Sloan |
MODERATOR,
please note:
-Sam Sloan made baseless charges regarding USCF members.
-Several USCF officials have refuted these charges.
-Sam Sloan has again made these
BASELESS charges with
FULL
KNOWLEDGE that they
are FALSE (as USCF
officials have refuted them).
If refusing to retract false charges and then again stating
the falsehoods are not against Forum policy...
THEN WHAT IS?
_________________
Steve OWENS in Tennessee
Just a USCF Member
It is time to GROSS |
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nolan 10339324
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 3919
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Posted:
Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:31 pm
Post subject: |
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it seems to me that Sam Sloan's
response was similar to Hal Bogner's response, both of them
disputing the claim that their posts were in violation of
the Forum guidelines.
Shouldn't they both get similar treatment?
(The third person did modify his post.) |
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ChessPromotion 12123950
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 332
Location: Forest Hills, NY
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Posted:
Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:38 pm
Post subject: |
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nolan wrote: |
it seems to me that Sam Sloan's
response was similar to Hal Bogner's response, both
of them disputing the claim that their posts were in
violation of the Forum guidelines.
Shouldn't they both get similar treatment?
(The third person did modify his post.) |
Speechless!

_________________
Stand up, unite and fight for the rights of all USCF
members, especially children! |
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SteveTN 12467003
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Nashville, TN
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Posted:
Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:38 pm
Post subject: |
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nolan wrote: |
it seems to me that Sam Sloan's
response was similar to Hal Bogner's response, both
of them disputing the claim that their posts were in
violation of the Forum guidelines.
Shouldn't they both get similar treatment?
(The third person did modify his post.) |
If both made baseless charges and have had them refuted by
USCF officials, why aren't both made to retract them or face
penalties?
Why do we have to abide by the rules and Sam Sloan does not?
Also, where else on these forums has Bogner made false
claims about USCF members and officials as has Sam Sloan?
Why do you equate their behavior when Sam has shown he makes
false charges on a serial basis and Bogner has not?
_________________
Steve OWENS in Tennessee
Just a USCF Member
It is time to GROSS |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:47 pm
Post subject: |
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nolan wrote: |
it seems to me that Sam Sloan's
response was similar to Hal Bogner's response, both
of them disputing the claim that their posts were in
violation of the Forum guidelines.
Shouldn't they both get similar treatment?
(The third person did modify his post.) |
Mike, I'm not sure you are correct.
In Mr. Sloan's original post he said:
samsloan wrote: |
... Therefore, at least one and
possibly as many as three candidates did not pay the
required $250 filing fee, one of whom was elected.
... |
I am
convinced (partially by statements from you, Mike) that this
statement is simply and clearly FALSE. Now Mr. Sloan
says:
samsloan wrote: |
Thus, it is insufficient merely to
show "copies of checks received from Steve Shutt,
Robert Tanner, and George John in the amount of $250
each". It is necessary to show in addition that
these checks were mailed to Don Schultz, that he
received them on or before January 10 and that these
checks were deposited in the USCF's bank account and
cleared. ... |
Even IF you allow that there is some
merit in this statement (I don't),
Mr. Sloan's original
statement IS STILL FALSE. It doesn't affect the truth
of Mr. Sloan's original statement whether the payment was
received on-time, by Don Schultz, or deposited in the USCF's
bank account. He SAID the payment had never been made. This
is now known to be a FALSE statement.
Enforce the rules.
_________________
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nolan 10339324
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 3919
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:05 am
Post subject: |
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Rodney, you like procedure so much,
so what specific disciplinary procedures should be followed,
and what due process rights do forum members have? |
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:22 am
Post subject: |
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joelchanning wrote: |
samsloan wrote: |
[snip snip]
There might be a perfectly valid explanation
for this. On the other hand, it might be
that the checks arrived late and therefore
were not deposited.
So, I am waiting for an answer. I have been
waiting for several weeks now, and thus far
no answer has been forthcoming.
Sam Sloan |
Here Sam demonstrates his excellent investigative
ability. It is what I was hoping would be his unique
contribution to the Board. |
Me too.
He's careful not to direct accusations at the three
individuals whose filing fee he questions (read what he says
above), so I can't see the reputational issue that's at
stake. I'll admit that calling them "insiders" and calling
this a "bigger scandal" was a bit over-the-top, but those
characterizations aren't going to destroy reputations
either. (Sam, you really don't have to exaggerate like this
to be effective.)
Only one of the three candidates got elected, and I think
it's safe to say that this is not the issue that that EB
member needs to worry about, from the viewpoint of his
reputation at large.
joelchanning wrote: |
Nevertheless, the Standards of
Conduct require that such questions be asked
confidentially within the context of the board since
they can create a toxic environment wherein innocent
people may be hurt. |
The Standards are posted here:
http://www.uschess.org/org/govern/conduct.html
Which provision do you cite? |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:13 am
Post subject: |
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For everyone else on these forums, we
couldn't say that somebody had done something wrong -- like
running for office without paying the filing fee -- unless
WE had the proof. We'd see a note from the moderator
demanding that we retract our statement.
Mr. Sloan thinks he can post anything he likes unless WE can
prove he's wrong! THIS ISN'T FAIR. He is using his position
on the EB to allow him to continually libel other people.
I'm tired of it. Artichoke, you seem willing to admit that
only the MOST outrageous statements are libel. I believe you
are clearly wrong. Saying that a candidate for office didn't
follow the rules when he ran IS libel unless you have proof.
Mr. Sloan DOESN'T. In fact, there's strong proof that the
payments were made -- the office still has copies of the
checks. What happened to the checks AFTER they were received
by the office, why they don't show up the way Mr. Sloan
expects them to in the General Ledger, is a completely
separate matter from WHETHER THEY WERE PAID.
Mr. Sloan's intention, from his choice of words, clearly
demonstrates that his INTENTION was to cause harm to the
reputations of those three people. You should be ashamed for
supporting him in this OBVIOUS attempt at character
assassination.
But if you want an example that CLEARLY constitues libel, by
ANY definition, how about what Mr. Sloan is publishing
(using the USCF Forums) about Jay Sabine and this unnamed
group of students? THESE STATEMENTS ARE STILL BEING
PUBLISHED WITHOUT EDITING BY MR. SLOAN. He's still having
these statements published, even though HE HAS ACKNOWLEDGED
THEY ARE FALSE!
_________________
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:17 am
Post subject: |
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artichoke wrote: |
He's careful not to direct
accusations at the three individuals whose filing
fee he questions (read what he says above), so I
can't see the reputational issue that's at stake.
... |
Artichoke, this statement is FALSE. In this ONE POST that
you've quoted, you may claim that he isn't directing an
accusation. But he clearly IS doing that in the first post
in this thread. That is the post the moderator demanded that
Mr. Sloan edit. That is the post that Mr. Sloan refused to
edit even though he knows it contains false statements about
these three individuals.
_________________
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:46 pm
Post subject: |
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tanstaafl wrote: |
artichoke wrote: |
He's careful not to direct
accusations at the three individuals whose
filing fee he questions (read what he says
above), so I can't see the reputational
issue that's at stake. ... |
Artichoke, this statement is FALSE. In this ONE POST
that you've quoted, you may claim that he isn't
directing an accusation. But he clearly IS doing
that in the first post in this thread. That is the
post the moderator demanded that Mr. Sloan edit.
That is the post that Mr. Sloan refused to edit even
though he knows it contains false statements about
these three individuals. |
Forgive me, but I don't see the false
statement. |
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nolan 10339324
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 3919
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:00 pm
Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Forgive me, but I don't see the
false statement. |
And THAT is what makes it difficult to draw precise lines as
to what is and what is not acceptable! |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:40 pm
Post subject: |
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I thought I had made it perfectly
clear what was false about Artichoke's statement. He claims
that Mr. Sloan doesn't direct accusations at the three
individuals. I pointed out that Mr. Sloan did, in fact, do
just that in the first post in this thread. Artichoke quoted
ONE post to prove his point, but IGNORED the post that Mr.
Sloan had been instructed to correct.
If that's STILL not clear, then I suggest you actually LOOK
at that post.
_________________
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SteveTN 12467003
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Nashville, TN
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:02 pm
Post subject: |
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samsloan wrote: |
SteveTN wrote: |
samsloan
wrote: |
SteveTN wrote: |
Either Sam broke the rules
when he made false claims or
he didn't. Which is it? |
Kindly tell us what proof you have
seen, because I have not seen any.
Sam Sloan |
Kindly read the BINFOs from the ED and the
previous posts by Nolan in this thread.
|
That is not what I asked you. You are telling me
that I should go read some stuff. I asked you what
proof you have seen.
|
No, you did not ask me anything. There was a period at the
end of your sentence. Yes, I am telling you to read what the
ED has written directly to the EB regarding this matter
(some stuff, indeed).
To Wit:
BINFO #200604042 wrote: |
To the Executive Board:
Judy just brought me copies of checks received from
Steve Shutt, Robert
Tanner, and George John in the amount of $250 each.
These are the filing
fees for the 2005 EB Election.
Regards,
Bill Hall
Executive Director
|
samsloan wrote: |
You apparently have not seen any proof. Also, you
have mis-quoted the ED.
|
I had not quoted him at all before this post. Now I have
quoted him. In this quote he states that he has checks from
Shutt, Tanner, and John for their filing fees.
Either you are lying now or you are saying the ED lied.
Which is it?
samsloan wrote: |
In this list, there is no check from Robert Tanner
or from George John or from Steve Shutt. Thus, it
appears that these checks, assuming that they exist,
were not deposited in the bank. By contrast, checks
from the other six candidates were deposited in the
bank.
|
Either you are lying now or you are saying the ED lied.
Which is it?
_________________
Steve OWENS in Tennessee
Just a USCF Member
It is time to GROSS |
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:07 pm
Post subject: |
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tanstaafl wrote: |
artichoke wrote: |
He's careful not to direct
accusations at the three individuals whose
filing fee he questions (read what he says
above), so I can't see the reputational
issue that's at stake. ... |
Artichoke, this statement is FALSE. In this ONE POST
that you've quoted, you may claim that he isn't
directing an accusation. But he clearly IS doing
that in the first post in this thread. That is the
post the moderator demanded that Mr. Sloan edit.
That is the post that Mr. Sloan refused to edit even
though he knows it contains false statements about
these three individuals. |
tanstaafl wrote: |
I thought I had made it perfectly
clear what was false about Artichoke's statement. He
claims that Mr. Sloan doesn't direct accusations at
the three individuals. I pointed out that Mr. Sloan
did, in fact, do just that in the first post in this
thread. Artichoke quoted ONE post to prove his
point, but IGNORED the post that Mr. Sloan had been
instructed to correct.
If that's STILL not clear, then I suggest you
actually LOOK at that post. |
You are somewhat right. Sam did come close to directing
accusations in the first post of the thread by asserting
that the three people apparently didn't pay their filing fee
or that for some reason the money didn't get paid in to the
USCF.
(My post made a particular reference to a different post,
which did not contain those accusations, but the first post
was not excluded. The first post says that not all the
filing fees were paid but does not say it was due to the
fault of any of the three.)
Nevertheless, I believe that just about all of us regular
posters have made accusations. I hereby accuse you,
tanstaafl, of having made accusations. |
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wzim 11315844
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 227
Location: Peoria, Il
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:41 pm
Post subject: |
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tanstaafl wrote: |
For everyone else on these forums,
we couldn't say that somebody had done something
wrong -- like running for office without paying the
filing fee -- unless WE had the proof. We'd see a
note from the moderator demanding that we retract
our statement.
Mr. Sloan thinks he can post anything he likes
unless WE can prove he's wrong! THIS ISN'T FAIR. He
is using his position on the EB to allow him to
continually libel other people.
I'm tired of it. Artichoke, you seem willing to
admit that only the MOST outrageous statements are
libel. I believe you are clearly wrong. Saying that
a candidate for office didn't follow the rules when
he ran IS libel unless you have proof. Mr. Sloan
DOESN'T. In fact, there's strong proof that the
payments were made -- the office still has copies of
the checks. What happened to the checks AFTER they
were received by the office, why they don't show up
the way Mr. Sloan expects them to in the General
Ledger, is a completely separate matter from WHETHER
THEY WERE PAID.
Mr. Sloan's intention, from his choice of words,
clearly demonstrates that his INTENTION was to cause
harm to the reputations of those three people. You
should be ashamed for supporting him in this OBVIOUS
attempt at character assassination.
But if you want an example that CLEARLY constitues
libel, by ANY definition, how about what Mr. Sloan
is publishing (using the USCF Forums) about Jay
Sabine and this unnamed group of students? THESE
STATEMENTS ARE STILL BEING PUBLISHED WITHOUT EDITING
BY MR. SLOAN. He's still having these statements
published, even though HE HAS ACKNOWLEDGED THEY ARE
FALSE! |
"....I have since been asking around trying to find out how
this could possibly have happened. The best explanation that
I can come up with thus far is that after the vote by the
old USCF board to move from New Windsor, New York to
Crossville, Tennessee, it was discovered that the USCF did
not have the money to hire professional movers to move all
the old archives and financial records from the New Windsor
offices to Crossville. As a result, a team of high school
students led by Jay Sabine, son of Harry Sabine, former USCF
Vice-President and the architect of the move to Crossville,
was dispatched to New York to move all the stuff. Upon
arriving in New Windsor, they found that the quantity of
material that they were expected to move was huge, far
greater than they had anticipated.... " This is part of the
original post that you are claiming that Sam should delete
or change.
I would read the part that says The best explanation that I
can come up with thus far as simply Sam's conjecture, not as
a blanket statement of fact.
I read everyone's stuff (except for Mike Nolan and maybe Tim
Just) here as there opinion. |
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nolan 10339324
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 3919
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:52 pm
Post subject: |
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I have been known to post an opinion
or two. |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:09 pm
Post subject: |
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wzim wrote: |
...I would read the part that says
The best explanation that I can come up with thus
far as simply Sam's conjecture, not as a blanket
statement of fact. ...I read everyone's stuff
(except for Mike Nolan and maybe Tim Just) here as
there opinion. |
Even Mr. Sloan must have thought
there was something wrong with what he had written.
samsloan wrote: |
Apology to ...
I wish to apologize to USCF staff member ... for in
any way stating, implying or suggesting that he ...
was in any way involved in moving the USCF records
from New Windsor New York to Crossville Tennessee or
in the possible loss or dumping of the records. |
I complimented Mr. Sloan on making
the postive step of issuing this appology. But WHY is the
original post still being published, still harming the good
names of so many people? Why didn't Mr. Sloan appologize to
the OTHER people he mentioned in his post?
In the first post in this thread Mr. Sloan says
samsloan wrote: |
...at least one and possibly as
many as three candidates
did not pay the required $250 filing fee... |
Now, Mr. Sloan can question what was done with the payment,
why he doesn't see it recorded, etc. BUT THERE IS NO DOUBT,
since the USCF office has copies of the checks, THAT THE
PAYMENT WAS MADE. It is clear that the candidates did what
they were supposed to have done, but Mr. Sloan insists on
posting a statement that says differently.
_________________
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
---
I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so
I can spread.
 |
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wzim 11315844
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 227
Location: Peoria, Il
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:22 pm
Post subject: |
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tanstaafl wrote: |
In the first post in this thread Mr. Sloan says
samsloan wrote: |
...at least one and
possibly as many as three candidates
did not pay
the required $250 filing fee... |
Now, Mr. Sloan can question what was done with the
payment, why he doesn't see it recorded, etc. BUT
THERE IS NO DOUBT, since the USCF office has copies
of the checks, THAT THE PAYMENT WAS MADE. It is
clear that the candidates did what they were
supposed to have done, but Mr. Sloan insists on
posting a statement that says differently. |
Again I think you are reading more into this. I would also
highlight the word possibly.
Isn't Sam simply saying possibly as many as three canidates
did not pay?
That doesn't imply to me that he is saying that three
canidates did not pay. |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:30 pm
Post subject: |
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wzim wrote: |
...Again I think you are reading
more into this. I would also highlight the word
possibly.
Isn't Sam simply saying possibly as many as three
canidates did not pay?
That doesn't imply to me that he is saying that
three canidates did not pay. |
He said "at least one". We now know
that the office received checks from ALL THREE. So his
statement about "at least one and possibly all three..." is
now known to be false.
Come on, this isn't difficult. Mr. Sloan posted something
that has subsequently been shown to be incorrect. The
moderator asked him to correct his post. He has refused.
His original post is CLEARLY an attempt to bash the
reputations of the the three individuals. That's why he used
the term "scandal". We now know that all three people did
what they were supposed to have done and sent the USCF a
check. Even IF Mr. Sloan's original comment were a simple
mistake, his subsequent refusal to correct the mistake (when
presented with the facts) amounts to an INTENTIONAL slur on
these three people.
_________________
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
---
I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so
I can spread.
 |
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:46 pm
Post subject: |
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tanstaafl wrote: |
wzim wrote: |
...Again I think you are
reading more into this. I would also
highlight the word possibly.
Isn't Sam simply saying possibly as many as
three canidates did not pay?
That doesn't imply to me that he is saying
that three canidates did not pay. |
He said "at least one". We
now know that the office received checks from ALL
THREE. So his statement about "at least one and
possibly all three..." is now known to be false.
Come on, this isn't difficult. Mr. Sloan posted
something that has subsequently been shown to be
incorrect. The moderator asked him to correct his
post. He has refused.
His original post is CLEARLY an attempt to bash the
reputations of the the three individuals. That's why
he used the term "scandal". We now know that all
three people did what they were supposed to have
done and sent the USCF a check. Even IF Mr. Sloan's
original comment were a simple mistake, his
subsequent refusal to correct the mistake (when
presented with the facts) amounts to an INTENTIONAL
slur on these three people. |
Oh come on tanstaafl, it's not very
much of a slur. Maybe it qualifies as a legato.
It's not clear to me that Sloan really cares about bashing
those three people with this wet noodle of a charge --
although the possibility cannot be disproved either. At this
point he might just be provoking you! And it is clear is
that you are intentionally bashing Mr. Sloan with this
repeated ... stuff. |
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:52 pm
Post subject: |
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nolan wrote: |
I have been known to post an
opinion or two. |
Indeed you have Mike, and so I hereby
accuse you too! |
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Grant Perks 11020607
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 573
Location: Miami, FL
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:55 pm
Post subject: |
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samsloan wrote: |
In this list, there is no check from Robert Tanner
or from George John or from Steve Shutt. Thus, it
appears that these checks, assuming that they exist,
were not deposited in the bank. By contrast, checks
from the other six candidates were deposited in the
bank.
|
They all paid with a bank
card, which shows in the journal entry dated 1/31/05. The
debit was to cash and the credit to executive board expense.
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samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:31 pm
Post subject: |
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GrantPerks wrote: |
samsloan wrote: |
In this list, there is no check from Robert
Tanner or from George John or from Steve
Shutt. Thus, it appears that these checks,
assuming that they exist, were not deposited
in the bank. By contrast, checks from the
other six candidates were deposited in the
bank.
|
They all paid with a
bank card, which shows in the journal entry dated
1/31/05. The debit was to cash and the credit to
executive board expense. |
The plot thickens.
This contradicts the previous statement that they all paid
by check.
Which one is true?
Sam Sloan |
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Grant Perks 11020607
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 573
Location: Miami, FL
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:54 pm
Post subject: |
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Something other than the plot has gotten thickened.
From Mike Nolan's post earlier in this thread:
nolan wrote: |
As I recall, several
of the candidate fees in the 2005 election were paid
by credit card. These would have been
'manual' charges through the USCF's credit card
terminal, I'm not sure exactly how they would have
been posted to the general ledger, but I doubt
they'd be discrete transactions, probably just mixed
in with 'miscellaneous income' entries.
More detailed tracking of credit card transactions,
including the 'manual' ones, is one of the goals of
the new cash receipts tracking system. The first
phase of this went into use in late October. |
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Jim Flesher 20056161
Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 30
Location: Weston, WV
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:41 pm
Post subject: |
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GrantPerks wrote: |
Something other than the plot has gotten thickened.
From Mike Nolan's post earlier in this thread:
nolan wrote: |
As I recall, several
of the candidate fees in the 2005 election
were paid by credit card. These would
have been 'manual' charges through the
USCF's credit card terminal, I'm not sure
exactly how they would have been posted to
the general ledger, but I doubt they'd be
discrete transactions, probably just mixed
in with 'miscellaneous income' entries.
More detailed tracking of credit card
transactions, including the 'manual' ones,
is one of the goals of the new cash receipts
tracking system. The first phase of this
went into use in late October. |
|
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm with Sam on this
one. The quote from the binfo was as follows.
BINFO #200604042 wrote:
To the Executive Board:
Judy just brought me copies of checks received from Steve
Shutt, Robert
Tanner, and George John in the amount of $250 each. These
are the filing
fees for the 2005 EB Election.
Regards,
Bill Hall
Executive Director ... end of quote from binfo.
So this begs the question ... Were they in fact paid by
check or were they paid by credit card? Possibly the ED
meant he had copies of receipts.
Regards
Jim
_________________
James A Flesher USCF ID: 20056161 |
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Randy Bauer 10320372
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 217
Location: Urbandale, Iowa
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:43 pm
Post subject: |
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wzim wrote: |
tanstaafl wrote: |
For everyone else on these
forums, we couldn't say that somebody had
done something wrong -- like running for
office without paying the filing fee --
unless WE had the proof. We'd see a note
from the moderator demanding that we retract
our statement.
Mr. Sloan thinks he can post anything he
likes unless WE can prove he's wrong! THIS
ISN'T FAIR. He is using his position on the
EB to allow him to continually libel other
people.
I'm tired of it. Artichoke, you seem willing
to admit that only the MOST outrageous
statements are libel. I believe you are
clearly wrong. Saying that a candidate for
office didn't follow the rules when he ran
IS libel unless you have proof. Mr. Sloan
DOESN'T. In fact, there's strong proof that
the payments were made -- the office still
has copies of the checks. What happened to
the checks AFTER they were received by the
office, why they don't show up the way Mr.
Sloan expects them to in the General Ledger,
is a completely separate matter from WHETHER
THEY WERE PAID.
Mr. Sloan's intention, from his choice of
words, clearly demonstrates that his
INTENTION was to cause harm to the
reputations of those three people. You
should be ashamed for supporting him in this
OBVIOUS attempt at character assassination.
But if you want an example that CLEARLY
constitues libel, by ANY definition, how
about what Mr. Sloan is publishing (using
the USCF Forums) about Jay Sabine and this
unnamed group of students? THESE STATEMENTS
ARE STILL BEING PUBLISHED WITHOUT EDITING BY
MR. SLOAN. He's still having these
statements published, even though HE HAS
ACKNOWLEDGED THEY ARE FALSE! |
"....I have since been asking around trying to find
out how this could possibly have happened. The best
explanation that I can come up with thus far is that
after the vote by the old USCF board to move from
New Windsor, New York to Crossville, Tennessee, it
was discovered that the USCF did not have the money
to hire professional movers to move all the old
archives and financial records from the New Windsor
offices to Crossville. As a result, a team of high
school students led by Jay Sabine, son of Harry
Sabine, former USCF Vice-President and the architect
of the move to Crossville, was dispatched to New
York to move all the stuff. Upon arriving in New
Windsor, they found that the quantity of material
that they were expected to move was huge, far
greater than they had anticipated.... " This is part
of the original post that you are claiming that Sam
should delete or change.
I would read the part that says The best explanation
that I can come up with thus far as simply Sam's
conjecture, not as a blanket statement of fact.
I read everyone's stuff (except for Mike Nolan and
maybe Tim Just) here as there opinion. |
So, if someone would write that "I have been asking around,
and the best I can come up with is that WZIM is a liar and a
thief who stole his parent's and children's money" that
would be ok, because it was qualified as conjecture?
I've been an object of Sloan's "conjecture" in the past, and
it doesn't seem nearly so abstract when it is directed at
specific people.
_________________
Randy Bauer |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:45 pm
Post subject: |
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Or maybe they were entered in the
General Ledger in an unusual way that made Grant think they
were credit card payments.
Either way, it'd be nice to know this for certain so that we
could go on to more productive matters -- which would be
almost anything since this seems to be a complete waste of
time.
_________________
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
---
I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so
I can spread.
 |
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Grant Perks 11020607
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 573
Location: Miami, FL
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Posted:
Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:45 pm
Post subject: |
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I guess
I was a bit preoccupied with watching the USC Notre Dame
game when I researched the question. While the journal entry
was posted on January 31, 2005, it isn't necessarily true
that the monies were received in the form of bank card
payments. Therefore, the 'missing' $750 that was recorded by
this journal entry as being paid could have been in the form
of bank drafts, as confirmed by the ED.
Either case, the filing fees were paid for all candidates as
evidenced by the general ledger.
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samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:29 am
Post subject: |
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GrantPerks wrote: |
I
guess I was a bit preoccupied with watching the USC
Notre Dame game when I researched the question.
While the journal entry was posted on January 31,
2005, it isn't necessarily true that the monies were
received in the form of bank card payments.
Therefore, the 'missing' $750 that was recorded by
this journal entry as being paid could have been in
the form of bank drafts, as confirmed by the ED.
Either case, the filing fees were paid for all
candidates as evidenced by the general ledger.
|
Could you please tell me where in the general ledger this
payment of $750 is recorded, because I have searched and I
can find no such payment or journal entry?
Sam Sloan |
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Grant Perks 11020607
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 573
Location: Miami, FL
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:09 am
Post subject: |
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The
journal entry is listed as 'access for january'. The debit
is to account 111100 'cash' on January 31, 2005 in the
amount of $97,094.28. The credit is to account 970000
'executive board' in the amount of $750.00. The payments for
the other five candidates are all listed individually as
debits to the 111100 account and credits to 472001 'other
income'. |
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samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:30 am
Post subject: |
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If Grant Perks is right, and Bill
Hall did not actually see copies of the checks because no
such checks exist, then I think we have a problem.
Sam Sloan |
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Grant Perks 11020607
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 573
Location: Miami, FL
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:38 am
Post subject: |
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samsloan wrote: |
If Grant Perks is right, and Bill
Hall did not actually see copies of the checks
because no such checks exist, then I think we have a
problem.
Sam Sloan |
Sam, as I stated above, the
checks or drafts could have been part of the cash as
reported by the journal entry. Therefore the copies of the
checks could exist. |
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:07 am
Post subject: |
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If the checks cannot be found this
way, is there any other way of determining for sure whether
the money was paid in to the USCF? This isn't my area of
expertise, but it seems he's asking the sort of question
that should have an answer. Suppose, instead of $750, we
were talking about $10,000 : would it be recorded
differently?
Or maybe we just have to wait for Pat Knight to look it up
this week. |
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Randy Bauer 10320372
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 217
Location: Urbandale, Iowa
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:48 am
Post subject: |
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artichoke wrote: |
If the checks cannot be found this
way, is there any other way of determining for sure
whether the money was paid in to the USCF? This
isn't my area of expertise, but it seems he's asking
the sort of question that should have an answer.
Suppose, instead of $750, we were talking about
$10,000 : would it be recorded differently?
Or maybe we just have to wait for Pat Knight to look
it up this week. |
My guess is that yes, there is an answer and yes, it can be
determined to just about anybody's satisfaction. The
question is, at what cost?
Keep in mind, it would be hard for Sam to suggest I'm just
part of the conspiracy, since he has noted that they cashed
my $250 check for my filing fee for the election in
question.
Should the USCF office be expected to spend a hour, two
hours, several hours to hunt down the answer to a question
that seems to have very little bearing on the organization,
its mission, and the services it provides to the average
dues paying member? There are only so many productive staff
hours in a day, and satisfying Sam Sloan's abundant
curiosity about this and no doubt a score of other
conspiracy theories he holds will have an opportunity cost.
Is it really worth it?
_________________
Randy Bauer |
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wzim 11315844
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 227
Location: Peoria, Il
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:54 pm
Post subject: |
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Randy Bauer wrote: |
So, if someone would write that "I have been asking
around, and the best I can come up with is that WZIM
is a liar and a thief who stole his parent's and
children's money" that would be ok, because it was
qualified as conjecture?
I've been an object of Sloan's "conjecture" in the
past, and it doesn't seem nearly so abstract when it
is directed at specific people. |
Yes I agree that there is a certain amount of truth to what
you are saying. And I wish I had a better answer or solution
to offer. But I think wholesale banning and or deleting of
posts is the wrong way to go.
Some here feel that Mike is playing favorites or simply
afraid to censor Sam Sloan. But if you look at the record I
can only think of one or two people that have been outright
banned since the forum as existed.
I've thought of several methods to make moderating the forum
more consistant and fair and every method that I've thought
of have drawbacks.
And even if someone is banned from here what is to keep him
or her from posting their views elsewhere?
And for the record, I didn't vote for Sam Sloan and have no
intention of voting for him in the future. |
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:12 pm
Post subject: |
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Randy Bauer wrote: |
I've been an object of Sloan's
"conjecture" in the past, and it doesn't seem nearly
so abstract when it is directed at specific people. |
Can you point me to the thread?
Thanks. |
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DACP 12447542
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 175
Location: Massachusetts
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:43 pm
Post subject: |
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This is the sort of thread that makes
me crazy. I do not have enough hours in the day, yet
everyone here does? Facts below:
Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:28 am Post subject: Bigger
Scandal: Some Insider Candidates Did Not Pay Files
However, the following candidates appear not to have paid
the required $250 fee:
Robert Tanner
George John
Steve Shutt
…
Therefore, at least one and possibly as many as three
candidates did not pay the required $250 filing fee, one of
whom was elected.
Kindly investigate this.
Sam Sloan
BINFO 200604042 – 11/13/06
Judy just brought me copies of checks received from Steve
Shutt, Robert
Tanner, and George John in the amount of $250 each. These
are the filing
fees for the 2005 EB Election.
Regards,
Bill Hall
Executive Director
Note the date of the post from Sam and the date of the reply
from the ED.
Instead of discussing here, Mr. Sloan please ask the ED to
simply send you copies of those checks Mr. Hall says he
received on November 13. Everyone else who would like a copy
of them, please do same. If Mr. Hall cannot produce the
copies, then Mr. Sloan, please take that issue up with the
Executive Board. That is the appropriate place to discuss
such an issue - not here.
Also, the statement that: "Therefore,
at least one
and possibly as many as three candidates did not pay the
required $250 filing fee, one of whom was elected." is an
accusation without proof. This is the sort of statement that
could possibly cost the USCF money in a character assination
lawsuit and is the type of statement that an Executive Board
member absolutely should not be making in a public forum -
it is an unnecessary legal liablity risk and totally
unprofessional. As a USCF member, I expect more from my
Executive Board.
When I look at the amount of time, energy, and animosity
created in this thread all I can think of is how much better
off we all would be if that same time and energy was devoted
to promoting chess in some fashion.
_________________
Donna Alarie
Chesspals, Inc. |
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nolan 10339324
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 3919
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:02 pm
Post subject: |
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Donna, I don't think I'd want the ED
sending out copies of any checks I have sent to the USCF,
maybe you're less worried about privacy than I am. |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:14 pm
Post subject: |
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nolan wrote: |
Donna, I don't think I'd want the
ED sending out copies of any checks I have sent to
the USCF, maybe you're less worried about privacy
than I am. |
Bill Hall says they have copies of
the checks. Grant Perks has told Mr. Sloan where to find the
entries in the General Ledger. THAT'S ALL THE INFORMATION
MR. SLOAN SHOULD BE GIVEN.
As Mike noted, Mr. Sloan (nor anyone else) should be allowed
to see the actual copies of the checks. He would be able to
see account numbers and other confidential information if he
were allowed to see the checks.
He's been given all the information he's entitled to see. I
would strongly object to him being given access to the check
copies.
_________________
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samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:35 pm
Post subject: |
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tanstaafl wrote: |
nolan wrote: |
Donna, I don't think I'd
want the ED sending out copies of any checks
I have sent to the USCF, maybe you're less
worried about privacy than I am. |
Bill Hall says they have
copies of the checks. Grant Perks has told Mr. Sloan
where to find the entries in the General Ledger.
THAT'S ALL THE INFORMATION MR. SLOAN SHOULD BE
GIVEN. |
I do not believe that Grant Perks told me that but, if he
did, he is wrong, because it is not there.
Sam Sloan |
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samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:38 pm
Post subject: |
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DACP wrote: |
Instead of discussing here, Mr.
Sloan please ask the ED to simply send you copies of
those checks Mr. Hall says he received on November
13. Everyone else who would like a copy of them,
please do same. If Mr. Hall cannot produce the
copies, then Mr. Sloan, please take that issue up
with the Executive Board. That is the appropriate
place to discuss such an issue - not here. |
Of course, I did take it up with the ED.
Tanstaafl copies it from the private board BINFOS and posted
it here. That is how it got over here. |
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DACP 12447542
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 175
Location: Massachusetts
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:03 pm
Post subject: |
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Okay, Mike your point is well taken.
I'll stand corrected, Mr. Hall can send redacted copies of
checks with account information and address information and
bank information blotted out if you will.
In essence an Executive Board member questions whether the
Executive Director has copies of checks which the ED states
that he has in hand. It would seem simple enough for the ED
to show 50% of the check to the EB member to prove he really
does have a copy of a check in hand and to show where it is
deposited in the records. If the ED has lied about having
checks in hand, that is an issue. If the EB member has
accused without foundation, that is an issue. In the first
case, that issue would be dealt with between the EB and the
ED directly as the EB has oversight of the ED.
Taking the issue up here is not the place for it.
Mr. Sloan as far as your comment goes, you are the one who
started this thread with an accusation. It would be much
better business practice to find out the facts first, before
making any accusations. You have the power to make motions
through the board to get the proof you want in hand. We have
proper procedures in place. Now would be a good time to
start using them.
_________________
Donna Alarie
Chesspals, Inc. |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:26 pm
Post subject: |
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On Sun Nov 26, 2006 at 4:35
pm samsloan wrote: |
tanstaafl wrote: |
...Grant Perks has told
Mr. Sloan where to find the entries in the
General Ledger. THAT'S ALL THE INFORMATION
MR. SLOAN SHOULD BE GIVEN. |
I do not believe that Grant Perks told me that but,
if he did, he is wrong, because it is not there.
Sam Sloan |
Let me see if I can help here.
On Sun Nov 26, 2006 at 6:29
am samsloan wrote: |
GrantPerks wrote: |
I guess I was
a bit preoccupied with watching the USC
Notre Dame game when I researched the
question. While the journal entry was posted
on January 31, 2005, it isn't necessarily
true that the monies were received in the
form of bank card payments. Therefore, the
'missing' $750 that was recorded by this
journal entry as being paid could have been
in the form of bank drafts, as confirmed by
the ED.
Either case, the filing fees were paid for
all candidates as evidenced by the general
ledger. |
Could you please tell me where in the general ledger
this payment of $750 is recorded, because I have
searched and I can find no such payment or journal
entry?
Sam Sloan |
The reply was very quick:
On Sun Nov 26, 2006 at 7:09
am GrantPerks wrote: |
The
journal entry is listed as 'access for january'. The
debit is to account 111100 'cash' on January 31,
2005 in the amount of $97,094.28. The credit is to
account 970000 'executive board' in the amount of
$750.00. The payments for the other five candidates
are all listed individually as debits to the 111100
account and credits to 472001 'other income'. |
Now, Mr. Sloan, do you acknowledge that you have received
the information or are you going to continue to deny it?
_________________
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samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:47 pm
Post subject: |
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Sorry, but no. There is no entry for
$750.00 to the Executive Board on January 31, 2005.
The 111100 account is the general operating account for all
receipts and disbursements, and is not confined to Executive
Board matters.
The figure of $97,094.28 is apparently the end of the month
balance. Everything in thrown in there, including the
kitchen sink.
Grant and Tanstaafl should try to bear in mind that I have
access to the records now and actually check these things.
Sam Sloan |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:56 pm
Post subject: |
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*I* DON'T have access to those
records. I am simply reporting what Grant Perks posted. A
post that you CLAIMED to have never seen.
Between the two of you, I'm more inclined to believe Grant,
but we don't have to guess about this. Either the data is
there or it isn't. Somebody else with access to this data
can confirm or deny it.
_________________
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
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samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:04 pm
Post subject: |
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I did not say that I had not seen
what Grant Perks posted.
I had seen it. However, he had not said what you said that
he had said.
Sam Sloan |
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Grant Perks 11020607
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 573
Location: Miami, FL
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:48 pm
Post subject: |
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samsloan wrote: |
Sorry, but no. There is no entry
for $750.00 to the Executive Board on January 31,
2005. |
Yes there is an entry for
$750.00. It is on page 430a of the PDF that you and I both
have access to. It is a credit to account 970000, 'executive
board'.
Quote: |
The figure of $97,094.28 is
apparently the end of the month balance. Everything
in thrown in there, including the kitchen sink. |
No it isn't the end of the
month balance. The end of the month balance is on the line
that following the journal entry. |
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Mulfish 10510376
Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 274
Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:09 pm
Post subject: |
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Grant, I'm curious as to why the $750
get posted to 970000 while the other fees went to 472001?
Wouldn't the same type of income normally get posted to the
same account? Yes, I realize the answer may simply be that
one of the two entries was misposted. |
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Grant Perks 11020607
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 573
Location: Miami, FL
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:21 pm
Post subject: |
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Mulfish wrote: |
Grant, I'm curious as to why the
$750 get posted to 970000 while the other fees went
to 472001? Wouldn't the same type of income normally
get posted to the same account? Yes, I realize the
answer may simply be that one of the two entries was
misposted. |
Either account is fine, and I
probably could justify at least one other as well. But in
the interest of consistency they should have been posted to
the same account. |
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samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
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Posted:
Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:30 pm
Post subject: |
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GrantPerks wrote: |
samsloan wrote: |
Sorry, but no. There is no
entry for $750.00 to the Executive Board on
January 31, 2005. |
Yes there is an entry
for $750.00. It is on page 430a of the PDF that you
and I both have access to. It is a credit to account
970000, 'executive board'.
Quote: |
The figure of $97,094.28
is apparently the end of the month balance.
Everything in thrown in there, including the
kitchen sink. |
No it isn't the end of
the month balance. The end of the month balance is
on the line that following the journal entry. |
OK. I see the entry for $750 which is on page 859 of the
document I have.
However, it just says 1/31/05 ACCESS FO GENJ $750.00
There is nothing to indicate what this $750 is for. Also, it
seems odd that this amount was credited to the Executive
Board. These were candidate filing fees. They had not been
elected to the Executive Board yet. Perhaps you just assumed
that they were going to be elected. The other entries in
that account were all payments to Beatriz Marinello.
Since the candidate filing deadline was January 10, 2005,
why were these entries made on January 31, 2005, three weeks
later? Were these candidates late in paying their filing
fees?
Sam Sloan |
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nolan 10339324
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 3919
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Posted:
Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:40 am
Post subject: |
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Perhaps they just weren't making
general journal entries until the last day of the month. I
think they were in the process of getting ready to move the
accounting department to TN at that time, too, and I think
one of the accounting clerks had already been laid off by
mid-January.
Do we know whether these petitions were sent to the USCF
office or to the Secretary (Don Schultz)? If the latter,
they might not have gotten forwarded to the USCF office
right away. |
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Grant Perks 11020607
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 573
Location: Miami, FL
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Posted:
Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:26 am
Post subject: |
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The
sales journal was kept on an access file called 'cash
receipting' as I recall. Yes, it was posted to the general
ledger once per month. At the time this entry would have
been posted, some time in February, the New Windsor A/R
employee had already been laid off and the new staff was
already hired and possibly in the process of training.
Again, the $750 should have been posted to the same place
that the rest of the filing fees were posted, but it isn't
worth an adjusting entry at quarter end nor is it worth the
amount of discussion it has received in this thread. |
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samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
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Posted:
Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:06 am
Post subject: |
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GrantPerks wrote: |
The
sales journal was kept on an access file called
'cash receipting' as I recall. Yes, it was posted to
the general ledger once per month. At the time this
entry would have been posted, some time in February,
the New Windsor A/R employee had already been laid
off and the new staff was already hired and possibly
in the process of training.
Again, the $750 should have been posted to the same
place that the rest of the filing fees were posted,
but it isn't worth an adjusting entry at quarter end
nor is it worth the amount of discussion it has
received in this thread. |
A remarkable statement by Grant Perks.
If these three insider candidates, one of whom was an
incumbent board member running for re-election, and the
other two were approved friends-of-the-board candidates,
were given an unofficial exemption and not required to pay
the $250 filing fees that the other six candidates were
required to pay, and were given space in Chess Life to
advertise their candidacies, at great cost to the federation
and its members, that certainly is a very serious matter
worthy of discussion by this forum and other forums.
Grant Perks admits above that these three candidates were
given different treatment from the other six candidates, in
that their filing fees were treated differently for
accounting purposes. What else was different? We would like
to know.
Sam Sloan |
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Mulfish 10510376
Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 274
Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted:
Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:29 am
Post subject: |
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You're kidding, right? The only thing
Grant "admitted" is that those three checks were posted to a
different general ledger account, a point that had already
been noted in previous posts. That's not "different
treatment", it's merely inconsistent accounting. Someone who
once worked in the financial arena would certainly
understand what a GL account is. The income was merely
classified differently. It was still received. |
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Randy Bauer 10320372
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 217
Location: Urbandale, Iowa
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Posted:
Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:36 am
Post subject: |
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Mulfish wrote: |
You're kidding, right? The only
thing Grant "admitted" is that those three checks
were posted to a different general ledger account, a
point that had already been noted in previous posts.
That's not "different treatment", it's merely
inconsistent accounting. Someone who once worked in
the financial arena would certainly understand what
a GL account is. The income was merely classified
differently. It was still received. |
Exactly. When I was budget director for the State of Iowa,
one of the biggest problems we encountered in financial
reporting was inconsistant coding of expenditures -- it
happens all the time, in organizations big and small.
Once again, Sam concocts a tempest in a teapot, makes a
mountain out of a molehill, etc., etc. Shouldn't our EB
members have better things to do with their (and our) time?
_________________
Randy Bauer |
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
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Posted:
Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:49 pm
Post subject: |
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Randy Bauer wrote: |
When I was budget director for the
State of Iowa, one of the biggest problems we
encountered in financial reporting was inconsistant
coding of expenditures -- it happens all the time,
in organizations big and small.
Once again, Sam concocts a tempest in a teapot,
makes a mountain out of a molehill, etc., etc.
Shouldn't our EB members have better things to do
with their (and our) time? |
Well I suppose things may have been
mis-coded or inconsistently coded, making it impossible to
divine from the records what occurred in this case.
But Sam certainly has reason to ask the questions, if the
records are indecipherable and he's trying to follow the
money. We cannot annul his inquiries by saying the records
are indecipherable. He's shown the ability to find
significant anomalies in the records, for example in the
Tanner case. We should cooperate with his investigations
into the financial records. |
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rfeditor 10010250
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 1211
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Posted:
Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:59 pm
Post subject: |
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artichoke wrote: |
Randy Bauer wrote: |
When I was budget director
for the State of Iowa, one of the biggest
problems we encountered in financial
reporting was inconsistant coding of
expenditures -- it happens all the time, in
organizations big and small.
Once again, Sam concocts a tempest in a
teapot, makes a mountain out of a molehill,
etc., etc. Shouldn't our EB members have
better things to do with their (and our)
time? |
Well I suppose things may
have been mis-coded or inconsistently coded, making
it impossible to divine from the records what
occurred in this case.
But Sam certainly has reason to ask the questions,
if the records are indecipherable and he's trying to
follow the money. We cannot annul his inquiries by
saying the records are indecipherable. He's shown
the ability to find significant anomalies in the
records, for example in the Tanner case. We should
cooperate with his investigations into the financial
records. |
Aren't you grasping at straws here? Sloan's initial claim
was that "insiders" had received special treatment. What he
ended up with was inconsistent accounting practices in New
Windsor. Hardly the same thing. Also in the Tanner affair,
what Sloan originally alleged bears only the vaguest
relationship to what the committee ended up with. Meanwhile,
he's made half a dozen claims which are obvious nonsense
(his demand for the nonexistent per diem, for example). How
many times does he have to be proven wrong before you accept
that's he just a loony with a loud voice?
_________________
John Hillery |
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
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Posted:
Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:10 pm
Post subject: |
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rfeditor wrote: |
Aren't you grasping at straws
here? |
No.
rfeditor wrote: |
Sloan's initial claim was that
"insiders" had received special treatment. What he
ended up with was inconsistent accounting practices
in New Windsor. Hardly the same thing. |
The "insiders" bit was unnecessary,
but the fundamental question about payment of filing fees
has not yet been resolved! This is typical of his queries:
they are things that should have easy answers but don't.
That typically points to a weakness in the system that
should be investigated and fixed. Sam has a talent for
finding these things.
rfeditor wrote: |
Also in the Tanner affair, what
Sloan originally alleged bears only the vaguest
relationship to what the committee ended up with.
|
The committee was being very nice to
Mr. Tanner, imho, by saying that there was not evidence of
fabricated players. They did say the events, real or
imaginary, weren't consistent with proper ethical standards.
"Vaguest relationship" is certainly a mis-characterization.
Sam was spot-on.
rfeditor wrote: |
Meanwhile, he's made half a dozen
claims which are obvious nonsense (his demand for
the nonexistent per diem, for example). How many
times does he have to be proven wrong before you
accept that's he just a loony with a loud voice? |
It seems people are still debating
when the per-diem policy was changed, which means that maybe
it was not clearly enunciated. Feels to me like another of
those Sam questions: it should be obvious but it isn't. Your
characterization as "obvious nonsense" therefore is again
inaccurate.
Maybe I've missed something here, but this is what I get
from what I read. |
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samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
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Posted:
Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:02 am
Post subject: |
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rfeditor wrote: |
Also in the Tanner affair, what
Sloan originally alleged bears only the vaguest
relationship to what the committee ended up with.
|
Would you please tell me the basis on which you make this
statement?
How do you know what I originally alleged? Have you seen my
ethics complaint against Mr. Tanner?
The reason I ask is that I have not shown my ethics
complaint to anyone, except that I made one original which I
sent to Pat Knight and kept one copy for myself. Still to
this day I have never shown my ethics complaint to anybody,
or revealed to anyone its contents.
If anybody has seen my ethics complaint, they either got it
from somebody in the office or somebody on the ethics
committee.
At this stage, now that he has been found guilty, I do think
that it would be appropriate for my complaint and his answer
to be made public. I am just trying to find out if this has
happened already.
Sam Sloan |
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tanstaafl 11246770
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1363
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Posted:
Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:10 am
Post subject: |
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artichoke wrote: |
rfeditor wrote: |
Aren't you grasping at
straws here? |
No.
rfeditor wrote: |
Sloan's initial claim was
that "insiders" had received special
treatment. What he ended up with was
inconsistent accounting practices in New
Windsor. Hardly the same thing. |
The "insiders" bit was
unnecessary, but the fundamental question about
payment of filing fees has not yet been resolved!
This is typical of his queries: they are things that
should have easy answers but don't. That typically
points to a weakness in the system that should be
investigated and fixed. Sam has a talent for finding
these things.
|
You may have some points, but on the
core issue, John is correct. There is no doubt that fees
WERE paid, that the "insiders" weren't, and that the
"scandal" wasn't. Having more than one category that income
or expense might fit is hardly new. Yes, it would be better
if the staff had been more consistent, but the income WAS
recorded and it was recorded in an appropriate category.
That all this happened during a time of transition would
explain any problem, but this is NOT an unusual event even
in the best run organization. Mr. Sloan should never have
made public accusations until he had checked the facts. He's
known the facts for several days now and he's STILL leaving
his original "insider scandal" post in it's original form.
This isn't proper behavior for ANYBODY, but much less for a
national officer!
artichoke wrote: |
It seems people are still debating
when the per-diem policy was changed, which means
that maybe it was not clearly enunciated. Feels to
me like another of those Sam questions: it should be
obvious but it isn't. Your characterization as
"obvious nonsense" therefore is again inaccurate.
... |
I also am surprised that the travel
policy wasn't published more aggresively. Having to dig back
through old EB decisions to find it is not a reasonable
burden to place on a traveler. Of course, Mr. Sloan has
supposedly "investigated" per diems, so I'm not sure why HE
didn't know. Maybe he should gather the travel related
policies into one place and publish an official USCF travel
policy document (after getting it approved by the rest of
the EB). That would actually be something USEFUL he could do
with his "research". Of course since it won't let him start
a new "scandal", I doubt he'll be willing to do it. I'll
leave aside whether Mr. Sloan did anything improper in his
request for travel reimbursements -- that's the subject of
another thread.
_________________
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rfeditor 10010250
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 1211
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Posted:
Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:32 am
Post subject: |
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samsloan wrote: |
rfeditor wrote: |
Also in the Tanner affair,
what Sloan originally alleged bears only the
vaguest relationship to what the committee
ended up with.
|
Would you please tell me the basis on which you make
this statement?
How do you know what I originally alleged? Have you
seen my ethics complaint against Mr. Tanner?
The reason I ask is that I have not shown my ethics
complaint to anyone, except that I made one original
which I sent to Pat Knight and kept one copy for
myself. Still to this day I have never shown my
ethics complaint to anybody, or revealed to anyone
its contents.
If anybody has seen my ethics complaint, they either
got it from somebody in the office or somebody on
the ethics committee.
At this stage, now that he has been found guilty, I
do think that it would be appropriate for my
complaint and his answer to be made public. I am
just trying to find out if this has happened
already.
Sam Sloan |
I know what you wrote here. (It's still there, unless you
have deleted it. Along with Jay Sabine and the landfill.) Of
course, you changed it as you went along. That's why
debating with you is a waste of time and energy.
_________________
John Hillery |
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rfeditor 10010250
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 1211
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Posted:
Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:51 am
Post subject: |
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artichoke wrote: |
rfeditor wrote: |
Sloan's initial claim was
that "insiders" had received special
treatment. What he ended up with was
inconsistent accounting practices in New
Windsor. Hardly the same thing. |
The "insiders" bit was
unnecessary, but the fundamental question about
payment of filing fees has not yet been resolved!
This is typical of his queries: they are things that
should have easy answers but don't. That typically
points to a weakness in the system that should be
investigated and fixed. Sam has a talent for finding
these things. |
Of course it has. Bill Hall and Judy Misner verified that
the fees were paid, and Grant Perks even showed you which
line they were entered on. If you don't choose to believe
it, that's your privilege, but you can't expect anyone but
Sloan and the other paranoids to talk to you about it.
Quote: |
rfeditor wrote: |
Also in the Tanner affair,
what Sloan originally alleged bears only the
vaguest relationship to what the committee
ended up with.
|
The committee was being very
nice to Mr. Tanner, imho, by saying that there was
not evidence of fabricated players. They did say the
events, real or imaginary, weren't consistent with
proper ethical standards. "Vaguest relationship" is
certainly a mis-characterization. Sam was spot-on. |
I suggest you look up the postings in which Sloan started
the Tanner business. What he began with was a claim that
"all" or "many" EB members had asked for and received rating
increases/floors from the office. The fact that he
eventually found one EB member who had done something wrong
(but not that) does not impress me.
Quote: |
rfeditor wrote: |
Meanwhile, he's made half
a dozen claims which are obvious nonsense
(his demand for the nonexistent per diem,
for example). How many times does he have to
be proven wrong before you accept that's he
just a loony with a loud voice? |
It seems people are still
debating when the per-diem policy was changed, which
means that maybe it was not clearly enunciated.
Feels to me like another of those Sam questions: it
should be obvious but it isn't. Your
characterization as "obvious nonsense" therefore is
again inaccurate.
Maybe I've missed something here, but this is what I
get from what I read. |
Mike has already documented the
existence of the "no
per diem" as early as 2004 on another thread. The date the
policy was adopted is of mild academic interest (I believe
it was at least six years ago, probably more). What Sloan
wrote, however, was that Joel Channing had refused to pay
him the per diem he had asked for. I rather suspect that
Joel would also refuse to give me a bag of money or the deed
to the office if I asked for it. Are you going to argue that
Sloan was disadvantaged by
not being informed that he would
not be given $50 a
day as a Board member? Affirmative action for the ignorant
and greedy?
Sam Sloan is a walking joke. It offends me that chess
players, who ought to be accustomed to logical thinking,
take him seriously.
_________________
John Hillery |
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
|
Posted:
Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:38 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
rfeditor wrote: |
artichoke wrote: |
rfeditor
wrote: |
Sloan's initial
claim was that "insiders" had
received special treatment. What he
ended up with was inconsistent
accounting practices in New Windsor.
Hardly the same thing. |
The "insiders" bit
was unnecessary, but the fundamental
question about payment of filing fees has
not yet been resolved! This is typical of
his queries: they are things that should
have easy answers but don't. That typically
points to a weakness in the system that
should be investigated and fixed. Sam has a
talent for finding these things. |
Of course it has. Bill Hall and Judy Misner verified
that the fees were paid, and Grant Perks even showed
you which line they were entered on. If you don't
choose to believe it, that's your privilege, but you
can't expect anyone but Sloan and the other
paranoids to talk to you about it. |
OK maybe I didn't find all the
relevant posts. I was looking for documentation. Saying it
was filed under a totally different or noninformative
category name isn't good documentation. Without
documentation we have to rely on the words of our colleagues
as we appear to be doing.
rfeditor wrote: |
I suggest you look up the postings
in which Sloan started the Tanner business. What he
began with was a claim that "all" or "many" EB
members had asked for and received rating
increases/floors from the office. The fact that he
eventually found one EB member who had done
something wrong (but not that) does not impress me. |
But he
did receive an
increase in his rating floor. Eric Mark said it was
justified by the submitted results of games that, I think,
never happened.
rfeditor wrote: |
Mike has already documented the
existence of
the "no per diem" as early as 2004 on another
thread. The date the policy was adopted is of mild
academic interest (I believe it was at least six
years ago, probably more). What Sloan wrote,
however, was that Joel Channing had refused to pay
him the per diem he had asked for. I rather suspect
that Joel would also refuse to give me a bag of
money or the deed to the office if I asked for it.
Are you going to argue that Sloan was disadvantaged
by not being
informed that he would
not be given
$50 a day as a Board member? Affirmative action for
the ignorant and greedy? |
As for ignorant, he would not be the
only one. Several people weren't sure about the per-diem
policy. If you were sure, you are in select company.
But he should have checked what the per-diem policy was if
he wasn't sure or was relying on the money to keep his
cash-flow healthy. I don't think someone told him that he
would be paid, did they?
rfeditor wrote: |
Sam Sloan is a walking joke. It
offends me that chess players, who ought to be
accustomed to logical thinking, take him seriously. |
Interesting perspective ... sometimes
I am not so logical. And sometimes that hurts me. But
sometimes I think intuition helps me. (I'm not even sure
that logic has much to do with the way I play chess.) And my
intuition about Sam, which I don't expect anyone else to
find convincing, is that he's performing an important
function by asking questions that don't have easy answers
and getting in the way of what he considers bad ideas. |
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rfeditor 10010250
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 1211
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Posted:
Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:01 am
Post subject: |
|
|
artichoke wrote: |
rfeditor wrote: |
I suggest you look up the
postings in which Sloan started the Tanner
business. What he began with was a claim
that "all" or "many" EB members had asked
for and received rating increases/floors
from the office. The fact that he eventually
found one EB member who had done something
wrong (but not that) does not impress me. |
But he did
receive an increase in his rating floor. Eric Mark
said it was justified by the submitted results of
games that, I think, never happened. |
So what? There is no resemblance between "Asked the office
to raise his rating by fiat" and "Received a floor because
he qualified for the OLM title." It is apparently true that
he did not really
deserve the title because some of those games were
illegitimate, but that's an entirely different offense (one
that should really have gone to the TDCC). You sound like
those types who claim that it's okay to convict some thug
even if he isn't exactly guilty, since he must have
committed some other crimes for which he wasn't caught.
Quote: |
rfeditor wrote: |
Mike has already
documented the
existence
of the "no per diem" as early as 2004 on
another thread. The date the policy was
adopted is of mild academic interest (I
believe it was at least six years ago,
probably more). What Sloan wrote, however,
was that Joel Channing had refused to pay
him the per diem he had asked for. I rather
suspect that Joel would also refuse to give
me a bag of money or the deed to the office
if I asked for it. Are you going to argue
that Sloan was disadvantaged by
not
being informed that he would
not
be given $50 a day as a Board member?
Affirmative action for the ignorant and
greedy? |
As for ignorant, he would not
be the only one. Several people weren't sure about
the per-diem policy. If you were sure, you are in
select company.
But he should have checked what the per-diem policy
was if he wasn't sure or was relying on the money to
keep his cash-flow healthy. I don't think someone
told him that he would be paid, did they? |
You're begging the question, as your hero Sloan often does.
He has repeatedly charged Joel Channing with refusing to pay
him a per diem out of personal malice. It has been shown --
repeatedly -- that neither he nor any other EB member is
entitled to such payments. It's one thing to make a mistake.
Continuing to repeat things that are demonstrably false is
evidence of either gross dishonesty or serious mental
defect. Which one do you want to defend?
_________________
John Hillery |
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WPraeder 12887461
Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 99
Location: PA, USA
|
Posted:
Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:29 am
Post subject: |
|
|
rfeditor wrote: |
samsloan wrote: |
rfeditor
wrote: |
Also in the Tanner
affair, what Sloan originally
alleged bears only the vaguest
relationship to what the committee
ended up with.
|
Would you please tell me the basis on which
you make this statement?
How do you know what I originally alleged?
Have you seen my ethics complaint against
Mr. Tanner?
The reason I ask is that I have not shown my
ethics complaint to anyone, except that I
made one original which I sent to Pat Knight
and kept one copy for myself. Still to this
day I have never shown my ethics complaint
to anybody, or revealed to anyone its
contents.
If anybody has seen my ethics complaint,
they either got it from somebody in the
office or somebody on the ethics committee.
At this stage, now that he has been found
guilty, I do think that it would be
appropriate for my complaint and his answer
to be made public. I am just trying to find
out if this has happened already.
Sam Sloan |
I know what you wrote here. (It's still there,
unless you have deleted it. Along with Jay Sabine
and the landfill.) Of course, you changed it as you
went along. That's why debating with you is a waste
of time and energy. |
John,
It appears Mr. Sloan’s posted text of his ethics compliant
is still on rec.games.chess.politics at:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.politics/msg/376c468af85eaae0
and on this forum at:
http://www.uschess.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=22953&highlight=#22953
Regards,
Wayne Praeder |
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samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
|
Posted:
Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:51 am
Post subject: |
|
|
WPraeder wrote: |
rfeditor wrote: |
samsloan
wrote: |
rfeditor wrote: |
Also in
the Tanner affair, what
Sloan originally alleged
bears only the vaguest
relationship to what the
committee ended up with.
|
Would you please tell me the basis
on which you make this statement?
How do you know what I originally
alleged? Have you seen my ethics
complaint against Mr. Tanner?
The reason I ask is that I have not
shown my ethics complaint to anyone,
except that I made one original
which I sent to Pat Knight and kept
one copy for myself. Still to this
day I have never shown my ethics
complaint to anybody, or revealed to
anyone its contents.
If anybody has seen my ethics
complaint, they either got it from
somebody in the office or somebody
on the ethics committee.
At this stage, now that he has been
found guilty, I do think that it
would be appropriate for my
complaint and his answer to be made
public. I am just trying to find out
if this has happened already.
Sam Sloan |
I know what you wrote here. (It's still
there, unless you have deleted it. Along
with Jay Sabine and the landfill.) Of
course, you changed it as you went along.
That's why debating with you is a waste of
time and energy. |
John,
It appears Mr. Sloan’s posted text of his ethics
compliant is still on rec.games.chess.politics at:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.politics/msg/376c468af85eaae0
and on this forum at:
http://www.uschess.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=22953&highlight=#22953
Regards,
Wayne Praeder |
The heated exchange between John Hillary and myself above
took place well before the Ethics Committee issued its
report.
I did not post the text of my ethics complaint until after
the Ethics Committee released its report. I did not even
tell anybody that I had even filed an ethics complaint until
after the Ethics Committee released its report.
Sam Sloan |
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
|
Posted:
Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:57 am
Post subject: |
|
|
rfeditor wrote: |
artichoke wrote: |
rfeditor
wrote: |
I suggest you look
up the postings in which Sloan
started the Tanner business. What he
began with was a claim that "all" or
"many" EB members had asked for and
received rating increases/floors
from the office. The fact that he
eventually found one EB member who
had done something wrong (but not
that) does not impress me. |
But he did
receive an increase in his rating floor.
Eric Mark said it was justified by the
submitted results of games that, I think,
never happened. |
So what? There is no resemblance between "Asked the
office to raise his rating by fiat" and "Received a
floor because he qualified for the OLM title." It is
apparently true that he did
not really
deserve the title because some of those games were
illegitimate, but that's an entirely different
offense (one that should really have gone to the
TDCC). You sound like those types who claim that
it's okay to convict some thug even if he isn't
exactly guilty, since he must have committed some
other crimes for which he wasn't caught. |
To quote an esteemed colleague here
on the board, please "don't put words in my mouth". I didn't
say anything about fiat and neither did Sam. I think it
would have been better if he had been more complete in
laying out the story here as well as in his complaint, but
maybe there was a reason not to disclose that part of his
complaint to the Ethics Committee.
If you're suggesting that now a new complaint should go to
the TDCC to deal with the aspects of the case that the
Ethics Committee could not address, that makes sense to me.
But the EC did not apparently refuse jurisdiction over any
part of the case presented to it.
rfeditor wrote: |
artichoke wrote: |
rfeditor
wrote: |
Mike has already
documented the
existence of the "no per
diem" as early as 2004 on another
thread. The date the policy was
adopted is of mild academic interest
(I believe it was at least six years
ago, probably more). What Sloan
wrote, however, was that Joel
Channing had refused to pay him the
per diem he had asked for. I rather
suspect that Joel would also refuse
to give me a bag of money or the
deed to the office if I asked for
it. Are you going to argue that
Sloan was disadvantaged by
not
being informed that he would
not
be given $50 a day as a Board
member? Affirmative action for the
ignorant and greedy? |
As for ignorant, he
would not be the only one. Several people
weren't sure about the per-diem policy. If
you were sure, you are in select company.
But he should have checked what the per-diem
policy was if he wasn't sure or was relying
on the money to keep his cash-flow healthy.
I don't think someone told him that he would
be paid, did they? |
You're begging the question, |
I couldn't have been begging for the
question you ask below, because now that I see it I don't
even agree with its premise. I was addressing a different
question.
rfeditor wrote: |
as your hero Sloan often does. |
Stop it, John.
rfeditor wrote: |
He has repeatedly charged Joel
Channing with refusing to pay him a per diem out of
personal malice. It has been shown -- repeatedly --
that neither he nor any other EB member is entitled
to such payments. |
He says that the last board received
per-diems. I agree with several people that it's now time
for him to document that claim.
I didn't think he claimed (certainly not repeatedly) that
Joel did anything out of
personal malice. I don't see the evidence for this
premise. You've put words in people's mouths (see the
beginning of the post) and thoughts in their heads (as I
think you did here).
rfeditor wrote: |
It's one thing to make a mistake.
Continuing to repeat things that are demonstrably
false is evidence of either gross dishonesty or
serious mental defect. Which one do you want to
defend? |
I'm trying to keep things fact based
as I'm sure you are too. |
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rfeditor 10010250
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 1211
|
Posted:
Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:02 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
artichoke wrote: |
I didn't think he claimed (certainly not repeatedly)
that Joel did anything out of
personal malice.
I don't see the evidence for this premise. You've
put words in people's mouths (see the beginning of
the post) and thoughts in their heads (as I think
you did here). |
I don't make statements like that unless I can document
them. On December 2, Sam Sloan wrote in a Forum post:
Quote: |
I disagree. Board members received
$7500 in per diems in 2005. Refusal to pay me per
diems is obviously politically motivated by the fact
that Mr. Channing obviously hates me, as anybody can
see who has witnessed his attacks on me.
Sam Sloan |
He has also made no attempt to support his claim that other
Board members have received such payments. In August, giving
Sloan the benefit of the doubt in such matters may have made
sense. To do so now smacks of credophilia.
_________________
John Hillery |
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
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Posted:
Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:24 pm
Post subject: |
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|
Let me raise the question directly
and see if this can get resolved. Last year's Board members
are mostly the current Board members aren't they, and most
of them read this forum.
Folks, did you get per-diems last year? |
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CHESSDON 10516790
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 187
Location: Highland Beach, Florida
|
Posted:
Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:52 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="rfeditor"]
artichoke wrote: |
I disagree. Board members received $7500 in per
diems in 2005. Refusal to pay me per diems is
obviously politically motivated by the fact that Mr.
Channing obviously hates me, as anybody can see who
has witnessed his attacks on me.
He has also made no attempt to support his claim
that other Board members have received such
payments. In August, giving Sloan the benefit of the
doubt in such matters may have made sense. To do so
now smacks of credophilia. |
DS: I'm getting in this discussion late.
A problem, I see ,is memories are blurred of past payments
and what might have been easily explained a few years back
is difficult now.
But some things are clear. For example, I never received any
per diems while serving on the Board during this century.
Before then, there was a$35 per day per diem. Most if not
all Board members fall into the same category as me.
When Beatriz was on the Board she receicved (I believe) per
diems, but not for Board work, but for her full time service
as COO. These expenses were pre-approved by the Board at her
appointment and as far as I know justifiable. I suspect her
reimbursed expenses during this period were significantly
less than her actual expenses.
Robert Tanner served as Zonal President as well as EB
Member. The expenses of the Zonal President to represent the
USA at meetings are covered and he may have taken a per diem
instead of expense acounting for it. I simply don't know.
Either way it was a legit expense that was budgeted in
advance.
Maybe there were other expenses that were per diemed and
legit for example an EB member participating in a meeting
with a sponsor.
Espenses of EB members to attend EB meetings are limited to
transportation, hotel and meals served during meetings. All
these are actual and not per diem. The room expenses are
usually directly paid by staff as part of the hotel
contract. Before the financial crisis starting around 2000
EB members got a $35 per diem per day. That was suspended
and never brought back as USCF began running out of cash.
Board members have numerous other expenses that are not
paid. Two quick examples that come to mind:
1) When Beatriz was president, she and I travelled to
Pittsburg to meet with the President of ICC regarding USCF
business. None of our expenses were covered.
2) This past year, I went to Turino Italy as the US
representative to the Bessel Kok Campaign team. I paid all
my own expenses which were considerable.
Frankly, it has been my experience that all Board members
pay a great deal to serve USCF on the Board. The morale of
this story is that unless you are willing topay a
heftydollar price to serve, don't serve.
As finances improve, IMO, we should return to past practices
where Board members receive full reimbursements for expenses
incurred to fullfill the duties of their position.
Don Schultz |
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
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Posted:
Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:04 pm
Post subject: |
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[quote="CHESSDON"]
rfeditor wrote: |
artichoke wrote: |
I disagree. Board members received $7500 in
per diems in 2005. Refusal to pay me per
diems is obviously politically motivated by
the fact that Mr. Channing obviously hates
me, as anybody can see who has witnessed his
attacks on me.
He has also made no attempt to support his
claim that other Board members have received
such payments. In August, giving Sloan the
benefit of the doubt in such matters may
have made sense. To do so now smacks of
credophilia. |
|
Just to clarify, the first paragraph above was written by
Sam Sloan. The second was written by John Hillery. Neither
was written by me. |
|
rfeditor 10010250
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 1211
|
Posted:
Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:07 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: |
I disagree. Board members received
$7500 in per diems in 2005. Refusal to pay me per
diems is obviously politically motivated by the fact
that Mr. Channing obviously hates me, as anybody can
see who has witnessed his attacks on me.
Sam Sloan |
BTW, has anyone bothered to do the math here? Six Board
members (for much of the year it was five) at three days per
meeting (it's usually two) times four meetings per year
works out to $104 per day. Those who believe six impossible
things from Sam Sloan before breakfast may have no problem
with this, but most of us will regard it as a
reductio ad absurdam.
_________________
John Hillery |
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samsloan 11115292
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 672
Location: Bronx, New York
|
Posted:
Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:49 pm
Post subject: |
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|
rfeditor wrote: |
I don't make statements like that
unless I can document them. On December 2, Sam Sloan
wrote in a Forum post:
Quote: |
I disagree. Board members
received $7500 in per diems in 2005. Refusal
to pay me per diems is obviously politically
motivated by the fact that Mr. Channing
obviously hates me, as anybody can see who
has witnessed his attacks on me.
Sam Sloan |
|
If the tapes or transcripts of the board meetings ever get
posted (as they should have been already) and you get to
hear the way that Joel Channing screams at me during board
meetings, that will erase all doubt that Joel Channing bears
personal malice towards me.
Sam Sloan |
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CHESSDON 10516790
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 187
Location: Highland Beach, Florida
|
Posted:
Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:46 pm
Post subject: |
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|
[quote="artichoke"]
CHESSDON wrote: |
rfeditor wrote: |
artichoke
wrote: |
I disagree. Board members received
$7500 in per diems in 2005. Refusal
to pay me per diems is obviously
politically motivated by the fact
that Mr. Channing obviously hates
me, as anybody can see who has
witnessed his attacks on me.
He has also made no attempt to
support his claim that other Board
members have received such payments.
In August, giving Sloan the benefit
of the doubt in such matters may
have made sense. To do so now smacks
of credophilia. |
|
Just to clarify, the first paragraph above was
written by Sam Sloan. The second was written by John
Hillery. Neither was written by me. |
DS: Sorry, my apologies!
Don Schultz. |
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rfeditor 10010250
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 1211
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Posted:
Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:19 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
samsloan wrote: |
rfeditor wrote: |
I don't make statements
like that unless I can document them. On
December 2, Sam Sloan wrote in a Forum post:
Quote: |
I disagree. Board
members received $7500 in per diems
in 2005. Refusal to pay me per diems
is obviously politically motivated
by the fact that Mr. Channing
obviously hates me, as anybody can
see who has witnessed his attacks on
me.
Sam Sloan |
|
If the tapes or transcripts of the board meetings
ever get posted (as they should have been already)
and you get to hear the way that Joel Channing
screams at me during board meetings, that will erase
all doubt that Joel Channing bears personal malice
towards me.
Sam Sloan |
So what? He may hate you like poison, but that has nothing
to do with your improper demand for per diem money. Now, if
you asked for something to which you were entitled, and he
then refused to pay you, there would be something to
discuss. But that hasn't happened, and you are not going to
be allowed to get away with this sort of rhetorical sleight
of hand.
_________________
John Hillery |
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joelchanning 12560070
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 247
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Posted:
Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:47 pm
Post subject: |
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samsloan wrote: |
If the tapes or transcripts of the board meetings
ever get posted (as they should have been already)
and you get to hear the way that Joel Channing
screams at me during board meetings, that will erase
all doubt that Joel Channing bears personal malice
towards me.
Sam Sloan |
This is an absolute lie. Joel Channing |
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joelchanning 12560070
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 247
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Posted:
Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:57 pm
Post subject: |
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joelchanning wrote: |
samsloan wrote: |
If the tapes or transcripts of the board
meetings ever get posted (as they should
have been already) and you get to hear the
way that Joel Channing screams at me during
board meetings, that will erase all doubt
that Joel Channing bears personal malice
towards me.
Sam Sloan |
This is an absolute lie. Joel Channing |
Neither the tapes nor the transcripts will show any such
thing. I can only ascribe Sam's statement to one of two
things: (a) he believes no one will actually look at the
transcripts or listen to the tapes, in which case he has
committed a bold lie, or (b) he's totally out of touch with
reality. I think it's a toss-up.
Joel Channing |
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JediJoshua 12666993
Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 170
Location: Southern Indiana
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Posted:
Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:58 pm
Post subject: |
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If you watched Lord of the Rings,
when Frodo had the ring on when attacked by the Ring
Wraiths, he saw a different reality that the Ring Wraiths
lived in. A sort of etheral plane of exhistence. We should
have all accepted the fact that SS exhists in his own
seperate plane of exhistance and never to take anything he
says at face value. Of the thousands of claims he has made
on these forums, I have only seen two of them to be true
while the others have all be false. I applaud Sam for these
two truths he did discover, but wish I didn't have to wade
through the filth of the others to find them.
_________________
God Save the Federation! |
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Mulfish 10510376
Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 274
Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted:
Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:40 pm
Post subject: |
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|
joelchanning wrote: |
joelchanning wrote: |
samsloan
wrote: |
If the tapes or transcripts of the
board meetings ever get posted (as
they should have been already) and
you get to hear the way that Joel
Channing screams at me during board
meetings, that will erase all doubt
that Joel Channing bears personal
malice towards me.
Sam Sloan |
This is an absolute lie. Joel Channing |
Neither the tapes nor the transcripts will show any
such thing. I can only ascribe Sam's statement to
one of two things: (a) he believes no one will
actually look at the transcripts or listen to the
tapes, in which case he has committed a bold lie, or
(b) he's totally out of touch with reality. I think
it's a toss-up.
Joel Channing |
They aren't mutually exclusive. |
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Vince Hart 12685294
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 66
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Posted:
Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:50 pm
Post subject: |
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JediJoshua wrote: |
If you watched Lord of the Rings,
when Frodo had the ring on when attacked by the Ring
Wraiths, he saw a different reality that the Ring
Wraiths lived in. A sort of etheral plane of
exhistence. We should have all accepted the fact
that SS exhists in his own seperate plane of
exhistance and never to take anything he says at
face value. Of the thousands of claims he has made
on these forums, I have only seen two of them to be
true while the others have all be false. I applaud
Sam for these two truths he did discover, but wish I
didn't have to wade through the filth of the others
to find them. |
You need to read "Sirens of Titan" by Kurt Vonnegut. Sam is
clearly caught in a chrono-synclastic infundibulum. |
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Randy Bauer 10320372
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 217
Location: Urbandale, Iowa
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Posted:
Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:09 am
Post subject: |
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[quote="CHESSDON"]
rfeditor wrote: |
artichoke wrote: |
I disagree. Board members received $7500 in
per diems in 2005. Refusal to pay me per
diems is obviously politically motivated by
the fact that Mr. Channing obviously hates
me, as anybody can see who has witnessed his
attacks on me.
He has also made no attempt to support his
claim that other Board members have received
such payments. In August, giving Sloan the
benefit of the doubt in such matters may
have made sense. To do so now smacks of
credophilia. |
DS: I'm getting in this discussion late.
A problem, I see ,is memories are blurred of past
payments and what might have been easily explained a
few years back is difficult now.
But some things are clear. For example, I never
received any per diems while serving on the Board
during this century. Before then, there was a$35 per
day per diem. Most if not all Board members fall
into the same category as me.
When Beatriz was on the Board she receicved (I
believe) per diems, but not for Board work, but for
her full time service as COO. These expenses were
pre-approved by the Board at her appointment and as
far as I know justifiable. I suspect her reimbursed
expenses during this period were significantly less
than her actual expenses.
Robert Tanner served as Zonal President as well as
EB Member. The expenses of the Zonal President to
represent the USA at meetings are covered and he may
have taken a per diem instead of expense acounting
for it. I simply don't know. Either way it was a
legit expense that was budgeted in advance.
Maybe there were other expenses that were per diemed
and legit for example an EB member participating in
a meeting with a sponsor.
Espenses of EB members to attend EB meetings are
limited to transportation, hotel and meals served
during meetings. All these are actual and not per
diem. The room expenses are usually directly paid by
staff as part of the hotel contract. Before the
financial crisis starting around 2000 EB members got
a $35 per diem per day. That was suspended and never
brought back as USCF began running out of cash.
Board members have numerous other expenses that are
not paid. Two quick examples that come to mind:
1) When Beatriz was president, she and I travelled
to Pittsburg to meet with the President of ICC
regarding USCF business. None of our expenses were
covered.
2) This past year, I went to Turino Italy as the US
representative to the Bessel Kok Campaign team. I
paid all my own expenses which were considerable.
Frankly, it has been my experience that all Board
members pay a great deal to serve USCF on the Board.
The morale of this story is that unless you are
willing topay a heftydollar price to serve, don't
serve.
As finances improve, IMO, we should return to past
practices where Board members receive full
reimbursements for expenses incurred to fullfill the
duties of their position.
Don Schultz |
In my year on the Board, which spanned portions of 2004 and
2005, I asked for no per diem and received no per diem. For
that matter, I asked for no travel expenses -- I paid for
all my air fare. I also paid for any meals that weren't a
part of the Board meetings. The year I was elected to the
Board, I also paid for my hotel accomodations at the US Open
in Florida.
_________________
Randy Bauer |
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chessoffice 10088887
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 131
|
Posted:
Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:33 am
Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Randy Bauer"]
CHESSDON wrote: |
rfeditor wrote: |
artichoke
wrote: |
I disagree. Board members received
$7500 in per diems in 2005. Refusal
to pay me per diems is obviously
politically motivated by the fact
that Mr. Channing obviously hates
me, as anybody can see who has
witnessed his attacks on me.
He has also made no attempt to
support his claim that other Board
members have received such payments.
In August, giving Sloan the benefit
of the doubt in such matters may
have made sense. To do so now smacks
of credophilia. |
DS: I'm getting in this discussion late.
A problem, I see ,is memories are blurred of
past payments and what might have been
easily explained a few years back is
difficult now.
But some things are clear. For example, I
never received any per diems while serving
on the Board during this century. Before
then, there was a$35 per day per diem. Most
if not all Board members fall into the same
category as me.
When Beatriz was on the Board she receicved
(I believe) per diems, but not for Board
work, but for her full time service as COO.
These expenses were pre-approved by the
Board at her appointment and as far as I
know justifiable. I suspect her reimbursed
expenses during this period were
significantly less than her actual expenses.
Robert Tanner served as Zonal President as
well as EB Member. The expenses of the Zonal
President to represent the USA at meetings
are covered and he may have taken a per diem
instead of expense acounting for it. I
simply don't know. Either way it was a legit
expense that was budgeted in advance.
Maybe there were other expenses that were
per diemed and legit for example an EB
member participating in a meeting with a
sponsor.
Espenses of EB members to attend EB meetings
are limited to transportation, hotel and
meals served during meetings. All these are
actual and not per diem. The room expenses
are usually directly paid by staff as part
of the hotel contract. Before the financial
crisis starting around 2000 EB members got a
$35 per diem per day. That was suspended and
never brought back as USCF began running out
of cash.
Board members have numerous other expenses
that are not paid. Two quick examples that
come to mind:
1) When Beatriz was president, she and I
travelled to Pittsburg to meet with the
President of ICC regarding USCF business.
None of our expenses were covered.
2) This past year, I went to Turino Italy as
the US representative to the Bessel Kok
Campaign team. I paid all my own expenses
which were considerable.
Frankly, it has been my experience that all
Board members pay a great deal to serve USCF
on the Board. The morale of this story is
that unless you are willing topay a
heftydollar price to serve, don't serve.
As finances improve, IMO, we should return
to past practices where Board members
receive full reimbursements for expenses
incurred to fullfill the duties of their
position.
Don Schultz |
In my year on the Board, which spanned portions of
2004 and 2005, I asked for no per diem and received
no per diem. For that matter, I asked for no travel
expenses -- I paid for all my air fare. I also paid
for any meals that weren't a part of the Board
meetings. The year I was elected to the Board, I
also paid for my hotel accomodations at the US Open
in Florida. |
I have requested no reimbursement for board expenses since
1999 or earlier, or for expenses incurred in 2003/2004 as
USCF Office Manager and Executive Director.
"Per diem" expense reimbursements for food were suspended at
the October 1999 board meeting and never reinstated. Sam
Sloan should withdraw his claim that $7500 in such "per
diem" expenses were paid in 2005, as nothing of the sort
happened that year or for many years previous.
Bill Goichberg |
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ChessPromotion 12123950
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 332
Location: Forest Hills, NY
|
Posted:
Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:52 am
Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="chessoffice"]
Randy Bauer wrote: |
CHESSDON wrote: |
rfeditor
wrote: |
artichoke wrote: |
I disagree. Board members
received $7500 in per diems
in 2005. Refusal to pay me
per diems is obviously
politically motivated by the
fact that Mr. Channing
obviously hates me, as
anybody can see who has
witnessed his attacks on me.
He has also made no attempt
to support his claim that
other Board members have
received such payments. In
August, giving Sloan the
benefit of the doubt in such
matters may have made sense.
To do so now smacks of
credophilia. |
DS: I'm getting in this discussion
late.
A problem, I see ,is memories are
blurred of past payments and what
might have been easily explained a
few years back is difficult now.
But some things are clear. For
example, I never received any per
diems while serving on the Board
during this century. Before then,
there was a$35 per day per diem.
Most if not all Board members fall
into the same category as me.
When Beatriz was on the Board she
receicved (I believe) per diems, but
not for Board work, but for her full
time service as COO. These expenses
were pre-approved by the Board at
her appointment and as far as I know
justifiable. I suspect her
reimbursed expenses during this
period were significantly less than
her actual expenses.
Robert Tanner served as Zonal
President as well as EB Member. The
expenses of the Zonal President to
represent the USA at meetings are
covered and he may have taken a per
diem instead of expense acounting
for it. I simply don't know. Either
way it was a legit expense that was
budgeted in advance.
Maybe there were other expenses that
were per diemed and legit for
example an EB member participating
in a meeting with a sponsor.
Espenses of EB members to attend EB
meetings are limited to
transportation, hotel and meals
served during meetings. All these
are actual and not per diem. The
room expenses are usually directly
paid by staff as part of the hotel
contract. Before the financial
crisis starting around 2000 EB
members got a $35 per diem per day.
That was suspended and never brought
back as USCF began running out of
cash.
Board members have numerous other
expenses that are not paid. Two
quick examples that come to mind:
1) When Beatriz was president, she
and I travelled to Pittsburg to meet
with the President of ICC regarding
USCF business. None of our expenses
were covered.
2) This past year, I went to Turino
Italy as the US representative to
the Bessel Kok Campaign team. I paid
all my own expenses which were
considerable.
Frankly, it has been my experience
that all Board members pay a great
deal to serve USCF on the Board. The
morale of this story is that unless
you are willing topay a heftydollar
price to serve, don't serve.
As finances improve, IMO, we should
return to past practices where Board
members receive full reimbursements
for expenses incurred to fullfill
the duties of their position.
Don Schultz |
In my year on the Board, which spanned
portions of 2004 and 2005, I asked for no
per diem and received no per diem. For that
matter, I asked for no travel expenses -- I
paid for all my air fare. I also paid for
any meals that weren't a part of the Board
meetings. The year I was elected to the
Board, I also paid for my hotel
accomodations at the US Open in Florida. |
I have requested no reimbursement for board expenses
since 1999 or earlier, or for expenses incurred in
2003/2004 as USCF Office Manager and Executive
Director.
"Per diem" expense reimbursements for food were
suspended at the October 1999 board meeting and
never reinstated. Sam Sloan should withdraw his
claim that $7500 in such "per diem" expenses were
paid in 2005, as nothing of the sort happened that
year or for many years previous.
Bill Goichberg |
Thank you Bill and Randy for speaking out. I think the
practice of no "per diem" by the USCF should continue. In
fact, I applaud Randy's decision of not asking for expense
reimbursements.
Note to Mike Nolan: Bill Goichberg has once again shown the
misinformation by Mr. SS.
_________________
Stand up, unite and fight for the rights of all USCF
members, especially children! |
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artichoke 10167825
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 476
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Posted:
Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:05 pm
Post subject: |
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Since this alleged quote from me has
been repeated in about the past 8 posts, I repeat the fact
that I never said it and Don had me in that quote because of
a simple mistyping. Please folks try to trim the quotes to
what's relevant rather than repeating an innocent mistake
endlessly ...
CHESSDON wrote: |
artichoke wrote: |
CHESSDON
wrote: |
artichoke wrote: |
I disagree. Board members
received $7500 in per diems
in 2005. Refusal to pay me
per diems is obviously
politically motivated by the
fact that Mr. Channing
obviously hates me, as
anybody can see who has
witnessed his attacks on me.
He has also made no attempt
to support his claim that
other Board members have
received such payments. In
August, giving Sloan the
benefit of the doubt in such
matters may have made sense.
To do so now smacks of
credophilia. |
|
Just to clarify, the first paragraph above
was written by Sam Sloan. The second was
written by John Hillery. Neither was written
by me. |
DS: Sorry, my
apologies!
Don Schultz. |
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joelchanning 12560070
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 247
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Posted:
Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:22 pm
Post subject: |
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artichoke wrote: |
Since this alleged quote from me
has been repeated in about the past 8 posts, I
repeat the fact that I never said it and Don had me
in that quote because of a simple mistyping. Please
folks try to trim the quotes to what's relevant
rather than repeating an innocent mistake endlessly
...
CHESSDON wrote: |
artichoke
wrote: |
CHESSDON wrote: |
artichoke wrote: |
I disagree. Board
members received
$7500 in per diems
in 2005. Refusal to
pay me per diems is
obviously
politically
motivated by the
fact that Mr.
Channing obviously
hates me, as anybody
can see who has
witnessed his
attacks on me.
He has also made no
attempt to support
his claim that other
Board members have
received such
payments. In August,
giving Sloan the
benefit of the doubt
in such matters may
have made sense. To
do so now smacks of
credophilia. |
|
Just to clarify, the first paragraph
above was written by Sam Sloan. The
second was written by John Hillery.
Neither was written by me. |
DS: Sorry,
my apologies!
Don Schultz. |
|
And I want take this opportunity to repeat that I have no
problem with the idea of paying per diem expenses based on
need. Joel Channing |
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rfeditor 10010250
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 1211
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Posted:
Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:28 am
Post subject: |
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Returning to the subject of this
thread, the exchange below proves that it is hardly possible
to caricature Sam Sloan. I'm sure USCF bookkeeping practices
in 2005 are a matter of vital interest to our membership.
Quote: |
To the USCF Executive Board:
Below is Joe Nanna's response regarding the
candidate's fees in question.
Bill Hall
Executive Director
United States Chess Federation
P.O. Box 3967
Crossville, TN 38557-3967
Phone: (931) 787-1234
Fax: (931) 787-1200
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Nanna [mailto:jnanna@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:22 AM
To: Bill Hall
Subject: Re: Candidate Fees
Bill:
When you sent Sam copies of the three checks in
question, all election
fees have now been accounted for. We can show that
the balance of the
fees hit the general ledger in January, 2005. I have
a copy of the
general ledger account detail if you need it.
Joe |
Quote: |
Yes. I would like to see it,
especially since this very issue has been
raised in Joel Channing's motion to censure me and
in Donna Alarie's
petition to have me recalled.
I would like an answer to the questions of why these
three checks were not recorded in the general
ledger, why they were not deposited in the bank
account, of if they were deposited when and where,
and why they were treated differently than the
checks from the other six candidates.
Sam Sloan |
"To argue with those who have renounced the use and
authority of reason is a futile as to administer medicine to
the dead."
_________________
John Hillery |
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